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Old 04-14-2012, 12:26 PM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Mizzou Basketball 2012

The last thread reached nearly 7,000 posts in 2 and a half months creating issues for the server, so it's time for a new one.

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Last edited by Saul Good; 09-19-2012 at 04:10 PM..
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #751
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
I thought MU would struggle much more than they have without Dixon. Losing him, along with last year's seniors, made for a pretty steep challenge. So far, so good.
MU doesn't have as much guard power.....now Okhari (sp?) and Brown have to step it up. So far they have.....but this MU team would be MUCH better w/ Dixon for sure.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:13 AM   #752
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From what I can remember, Haith never had a do-everything big like Bowers in Miami. As for Pressey, well, the answer to your question is contained grammatically in the post you took initial umbrage with.
So they look like his Miami teams except for the Point Guard and big man who are the team's two best players?

Soooooo........they're a bunch of tall, black guys? Nailed it.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:20 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
So they look like his Miami teams except for the Point Guard and big man who are the team's two best players?

Soooooo........they're a bunch of tall, black guys? Nailed it.
It was a comment about offensive pace, a general hope that passing lanes out to the perimeter will be open instead of creating them, and shot-selection.

And, once again, it was a gamethread comment. I'm sorry that the ambiguity of my use of "right now" led you to read a timeframe longer than the six-minute stretch of gameplay that I intended to refer to. Reactionary posts (which all gamethread posts necessarily are) aren't the best posts to ground a day-after discussion in. Unless misreading things is a form of productivity to you; it isn't to me.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:51 AM   #754
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Weighing in from ...

On the game - So weird to watch Missouri physically beat up a Big Ten team and laugh about complaints that the refs let them play too rough and let Missouri go over everyone's back.

Pressey is not a great shooter - and some of those 3 attempts were bad shots (the only two I remember him taking in the second half came out of the flow of the offense, so I don't mind that). But that they won with him shooting 3/15 INSIDE the arc is pretty incredible. Nails at the FT stripe, too.

Missouri's inside trio - Bowers, Oriakhi and Criswell - is the best I can remember at Mizzou (I was a bit young to REALLY remember Doug Smith, Lee Cowerd and Gary Leoanard - just remember them being awesome). And they, along with Ross, were definitely the difference for Mizzou yesterday. I think Criswell is going to be a very nice starter for this team as a senior next year.

I think Jabari Brown makes a big difference for this team. His shooting ability forces teams to bring double-team help on Pressey from inside, rather than outside, leaving him room to drop off to big guys for easy finishes (like last year). This puts the pick-and-roll firmly back in the playbook for Mizzou, and puts Pressey at his best.

On Haith ...

I was very-anti Haith on the hiring. I was calling for him to be gone when the Miami allegations started surfacing. But I was wrong, and I'm damn glad of it.

It's apparent that his ability to hire and pay top assistants at Missouri is making a big difference. Despite the turnover, Haith has been able to put together STRONG staffs that can recruit and coach.

Look at the differences in Haith's recruiting classes so far. Jonathan Williams III, Wes Clark and Anton Beard are all going to end up being higher-ranked players than his best guy at Miami, Daquan Cook. The 2013 class is going to end up being a very good, and 2014 is off to a nice start with big names a strong possibility (notably, Devin Booker)

The ability to turn over the roster construction - and do it with quality transfer players - can't be overstated. Two games into his Missouri career, it looks like Jabari Brown is going to be a very good scoring guard who might live up to his HS hype. Ross and Bell are solid role players. And Jordan Clarkson, who can't play this season (After abandoning the former Beaker Danny Manning like a true son should), is a stud along the lines of Brown according to what I hear.

And as for what his teams are going to look like... even if Pressey jumps to the NBA (not a certainty unless he really turns it on in SEC play), I don't think Haith's teams will look much like Miami.

For next year... Criswell is a skilled face-4 who is a physical rebounder and finisher. I think he's better than Reggie Johnson, who was Haith's best big at UM. JWIII is a skilled face 4, too, and a top 50 recruit. Haith never had a big guy with that type of potential come in. Brown is going to be end up being a better 2-guard than anyone he had at Miami, too. Stef Jankovic also doesn't look like anyone he recruited at Miami.

I'm firmly in the camp, now, that Frank Haith's tenure at Miami doesn't really tell us anything about him - but it does tell us that AD doesn't support basketball well at all. Haith is likely going to finish this season with another sterling record (hard to imagine this team losing more than 4-5 games in SEC play) and have a winning percentage over .800.

And he's going to have done that in two different ways. Once with a thin, small, skill-based team, and once with a deep, big, physical team.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:08 AM   #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Missouri's inside trio - Bowers, Oriakhi and Criswell - is the best I can remember at Mizzou (I was a bit young to REALLY remember Doug Smith, Lee Cowerd and Gary Leoanard - just remember them being awesome).
I didn't know you were that young (or "young"). I was at MU during those years.

Leonard really wasn't that good. He had size, but he lacked desire. He showed in flashes, and he did enough his senior year to get drafted into the NBA on size alone. But he really, really frustrated Norm by disappearing for long stretches.

And Lee Coward was a guard, not an inside player. Maybe you were thinking of Nathan Buntin, who was a forward (and like Coward, was from Detroit)?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:43 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
I think Jabari Brown makes a big difference for this team. His shooting ability forces teams to bring double-team help on Pressey from inside, rather than outside, leaving him room to drop off to big guys for easy finishes (like last year). This puts the pick-and-roll firmly back in the playbook for Mizzou, and puts Pressey at his best.
This point cannot be understated. 2011 is a great example of why it's so important for a guy like Pressey to have great wing shooters. Some PGs force the defenders to play tighter by shooting from the key; Pressey, on the other hand, really needs someone at the wing with a legit deep threat. With Bell and Ross, opponents could employ a soft double team and really force Pressey's hand. With Brown shifted towards the baseline, the defense must stretch, and Pressey's fluid movement can really shine. Add Bowers at the (no pun intended) elbow, and Phil can really analyze the appropriate move. He can dish to AO on the opposite block, knowing that Bowers has spread the D, who can dish to Brown for the baseline three; if Brown is well-guarded, he can either return the ball to the key, or have Bowers flash towards the basket.. it's a very versatile offense when you've got a guy like Brown out there.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:49 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by siberian khatru View Post
I didn't know you were that young (or "young"). I was at MU during those years.

Leonard really wasn't that good. He had size, but he lacked desire. He showed in flashes, and he did enough his senior year to get drafted into the NBA on size alone. But he really, really frustrated Norm by disappearing for long stretches.

And Lee Coward was a guard, not an inside player. Maybe you were thinking of Nathan Buntin, who was a forward (and like Coward, was from Detroit)?
That would be it. I was 6-8 during those years, just starting to really get into sports.

And yeah, it was Buntin I was thinking of.

I don't think of the 93-94 team being really dominant inside, though it was good. Don't remember them dominating the glass like this team does.

I watched that Braggin Rights game the other day... and it made me a bit sad. It's easy to forget how much bounce, agility and lift Kelly Thames had as a freshman. I honestly think he would have been Paul Pierce-esque if he'd never injured the knee.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:04 PM   #758
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The best Mizzou inside trio was probably a group many are too young to have watched but have read about....Frazier, Stipanovich and Marvin "Moon" McCrary. With PG Jon Sunvold they were probably the best team MU put on the court. They also had a guy who came off the bench, can't seem to recall his name right off the top of my head, who was considered one of the best "6th man" in the country at that time.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:06 PM   #759
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Originally Posted by Mosbonian View Post
The best Mizzou inside trio was probably a group many are too young to have watched but have read about....Frazier, Stipanovich and Marvin "Moon" McCrary. With PG Jon Sunvold they were probably the best team MU put on the court. They also had a guy who came off the bench, can't seem to recall his name right off the top of my head, who was considered one of the best "6th man" in the country at that time.
Prince Bridges? Very athletic.

Mark Dressler was also a nice role player.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:11 PM   #760
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Prince Bridges? Very athletic.

Mark Dressler was also a nice role player.
Dressler was the guy I was thinking of.....I thought Prince Bridges came later. And he was a heck of a leaper.

There was a time when MU seemed to always have a "garbage rebounder" guy on the roster. The guy who couldn't hit a basket unless he was right under it, but was a bull underneath for rebounding. McCrary and Buntin were of that mold...there was a later player, trying to remember his last name but can't, named Mike but he was horrible as a FG/FT shooter but was a scrapper underneath. Toward the end of his career he got better at shooting, but more than anything you could count on him being around the ball at all times.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:13 PM   #761
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Dressler was the guy I was thinking of.....I thought Prince Bridges came later. And he was a heck of a leaper.

There was a time when MU seemed to always have a "garbage rebounder" guy on the roster. The guy who couldn't hit a basket unless he was right under it, but was a bull underneath for rebounding. McCrary and Buntin were of that mold...there was a later player, trying to remember his last name but can't, named Mike but he was horrible as a FG/FT shooter but was a scrapper underneath. Toward the end of his career he got better at shooting, but more than anything you could count on him being around the ball at all times.
Greg Cavener fits that bill. One of the worst FT shooters I've ever seen. But excellent clog the middle, lunchpail, garbage man.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:27 PM   #762
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Greg Cavener fits that bill. One of the worst FT shooters I've ever seen. But excellent clog the middle, lunchpail, garbage man.
I had forgotten about Cavener....but he was in the same mold as the guy I am thinking of. Derek Grimm was another although he was a better shooter but was still a garbage guy.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:28 PM   #763
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I had forgotten about Cavener....but he was in the same mold as the guy I am thinking of. Derek Grimm was another although he was a better shooter but was still a garbage guy.
You thinking of Mike Sandbothe?
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:30 PM   #764
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I had forgotten about Cavener....but he was in the same mold as the guy I am thinking of. Derek Grimm was another although he was a better shooter but was still a garbage guy.
Derek Grimm wasn't a garbage guy.
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:35 PM   #765
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Derek Grimm wasn't a garbage guy.
Wasn't a great shooter....he was a good rebounder.
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