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Old 04-01-2012, 03:23 PM  
keg in kc keg in kc is offline
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Game of Thrones *Spoiler* Thread

There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...

I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:42 AM   #181
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I think Sansa gives a hint of warging ability with the dog at Littlefinger's house later on. Arya certainly can warg which she uses to her advantage when she is blinded, plus she has the wolf dreams like Bran. Bran and Jon can warg also. So I am pretty sure Robb and Rickon probably can as well, even if it is never explicitly stated in the books.
Bran is the most specific with the Warging. The others have a "closeness" but save Arya none take it to the level that Bran does.
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:27 PM   #182
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Arya definitely wargs a cat.

Jon definitely wargs Ghost.

Bran is the most powerful of them all and actually reaches out to Jon in his dream to get Jon to open his mind to Ghost (that's when Jon sees the wildlings through Ghost's eyes).

We don't get POV chapters for Robb or Rickon, so we can't say for certain that they do warg Grey Wind and Shaggy Dog, but there are strong indications that they do. I think they just showed Robb doing it on the show at the beginning of this episode.

Sansa is the biggest question because we do get POVs but she hasn't fully warged in them. But I do seem to recall a hint of that when she's with Littlefinger, I'd have to re-read to say for sure. With her wolf being killed, her ability may be lost or hindered.

Bran clearly has the strongest ability, perhaps because he lost his legs, sort of how blind people can end up with better hearing to compensate for the loss of one of their senses.

So I guess I think they all can, just Bran is the best at it and Sansa is the weakest, both likely due to their unique circumstances.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #183
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So I guess I think they all can, just Bran is the best at it and Sansa is the weakest, both likely due to their unique circumstances.
Excellent post. Excellent reasoning. This is where I've landed on the issue as well. Makes sense.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:35 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
Arya definitely wargs a cat.

Jon definitely wargs Ghost.

Bran is the most powerful of them all and actually reaches out to Jon in his dream to get Jon to open his mind to Ghost (that's when Jon sees the wildlings through Ghost's eyes).

We don't get POV chapters for Robb or Rickon, so we can't say for certain that they do warg Grey Wind and Shaggy Dog, but there are strong indications that they do. I think they just showed Robb doing it on the show at the beginning of this episode.

Sansa is the biggest question because we do get POVs but she hasn't fully warged in them. But I do seem to recall a hint of that when she's with Littlefinger, I'd have to re-read to say for sure. With her wolf being killed, her ability may be lost or hindered.

Bran clearly has the strongest ability, perhaps because he lost his legs, sort of how blind people can end up with better hearing to compensate for the loss of one of their senses.

So I guess I think they all can, just Bran is the best at it and Sansa is the weakest, both likely due to their unique circumstances.
I believe Jon also warged an eagle when searching for the wildling camps.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:18 PM   #185
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I believe Jon also warged an eagle when searching for the wildling camps.
I thought Jon warged into Ghost while looking for wildlings, then he woke up freaking out when Ghost got attacked by an eagle?
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:30 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
I thought Jon warged into Ghost while looking for wildlings, then he woke up freaking out when Ghost got attacked by an eagle?
I believe the eagle was orell warging out. Then jon kills the eagle, orell's spirit (still in the eagle) scars jon, varamyr wargs the eagle and then melisandre kills the eagle with varamyr behind the wheel, driving varamyr insane and destroying orell's spirit.

Or something like that. Lots of warging north of the wall.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:20 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
I believe the eagle was orell warging out. Then jon kills the eagle, orell's spirit (still in the eagle) scars jon, varamyr wargs the eagle and then melisandre kills the eagle with varamyr behind the wheel, driving varamyr insane and destroying orell's spirit.

Or something like that. Lots of warging north of the wall.
Its been a while, but I thought at some point that Jon received a vision of the wildling camp and I thought he was seeing through the eagle's eyes. I really need to re-read the damn books.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:40 AM   #188
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Its been a while, but I thought at some point that Jon received a vision of the wildling camp and I thought he was seeing through the eagle's eyes. I really need to re-read the damn books.
I think Jon sees the wildling camp through Ghost's eyes while warging, and then Ghost is attacked by the eagle. The eagle is being warged by one of the wildlings, and apparently one warg can generally spot another fairly easily, so the eagle knew Jon was spying on them through Ghost and thus attacked Ghost to drive him away.

Later Jon kills the man warging the eagle when Jon and Halfhand find their outpost, and that apparently traps the man inside the eagle. Halfhand kills the other man at the outpost, and Jon goes to kill the third person but discovers it is a woman (Ygritte), so he lets her go. When Jon is captured by the wildlings, Ygritte vouches for him being a warg and for him letting her go when he could have killed her, and then Jon kills the Halfhand (per his orders), and the wildlings vote to allow Jon to join them. At that meeting Ygritte tells Jon he trapped the guy inside the eagle when he killed him and the guy/eagle is pissed about it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #189
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Can we talk about the nurse that Robb meets in the field after the battle? I don't remember ever reading about her in the book (of course Robb never gets a POV, but I don't even remember her being discussed with Cat or whomever). Who is she? Is she going to take the place of Jeyne Westerling? What do we think?
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:03 AM   #190
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That actress was originally listed as being cast as Jeyne, so she should be Robb's love interest, even if they don't call her Jeyne Westerling. But I am curious about that too, it will be interesting to see how that develops. She may have just been lying to Robb about who she is. I'm guessing Robb will get hurt and she'll end up nursing him back to health and they will fall in love, but who knows.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:09 AM   #191
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That actress was originally listed as being cast as Jeyne, so she should be Robb's love interest, even if they don't call her Jeyne Westerling. But I am curious about that too, it will be interesting to see how that develops. She may have just been lying to Robb about who she is. I'm guessing Robb will get hurt and she'll end up nursing him back to health and they will fall in love, but who knows.
They could leave the Westerlings out of the show completely and just have Jon marry someone from Volantis. It accomplishes the plot device of pissing off the Freys just as well.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:13 AM   #192
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That actress was originally listed as being cast as Jeyne, so she should be Robb's love interest, even if they don't call her Jeyne Westerling. But I am curious about that too, it will be interesting to see how that develops. She may have just been lying to Robb about who she is. I'm guessing Robb will get hurt and she'll end up nursing him back to health and they will fall in love, but who knows.
Ah. Cool. Good to know. That is interesting. I sort of like the idea that she will be Jeyne, but she's hiding her identity. Though that may be too complicated and unnecessary.
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They could leave the Westerlings out of the show completely and just have Jon marry someone from Volantis. It accomplishes the plot device of pissing off the Freys just as well.
Very good point. And that's probably the best/simplest solution. But it also seems weird to just create another character. She could still be Jeyne Westerling and you could still leave out everything else.

Whatever. Ultimately, doesn't really matter. I was just curious if I was missing something.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:30 AM   #193
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Can we talk about the nurse that Robb meets in the field after the battle? I don't remember ever reading about her in the book (of course Robb never gets a POV, but I don't even remember her being discussed with Cat or whomever). Who is she? Is she going to take the place of Jeyne Westerling? What do we think?
My guess was that it is her, but she didn't want him to know who she really was. But it could be that they re-named Jeyne for some reason?
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:32 AM   #194
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There are theories out there that Jeyne was pregnant with Robb's child when Robb was killed and that she went into hiding to protect the baby. If the show eliminates the character of Jeyne Westerling, then I think that pretty much blows that theory up (not that I think it is a good one necessarily, the evidence is pretty weak).

If you are interested, it is in the "Heir to the North" essay on the Tower of the Hand website's essays page. They have some excellent essays there, but I think that one is a bit of a stretch.

Here is the link to the essay:

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/...rth/index.html
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:03 AM   #195
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They could leave the Westerlings out of the show completely and just have Jon marry someone from Volantis. It accomplishes the plot device of pissing off the Freys just as well.
I think we'll see a lot more of this as the show progresses - because the books become so completely convoluted that it would simply be impossible for show to follow them closely. Can you imagine an entire season of the show without Tyrion, for example?
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