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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-13-2013 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:19 PM   #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants View Post
Agree, but how is that the same scenario that Frank described?
He's attempting to backtrack out of his statement earlier.

I understand.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
So Zimmerman chooses to confront someone he believes is a criminal. He pursues the suspected criminal that is running from him, even though police have told him its not necessary.

And then wants to claim self defense?

Absurd.
Agreed.
Even as a legal CCW carrier, you cannot instigate a confrontation then use deadly force to end the confrontation and call it self-defense.
Maybe in Texas you could but this is Florida.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:27 PM   #753
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Agreed.
Even as a legal CCW carrier, you cannot instigate a confrontation then use deadly force to end the confrontation and call it self-defense.
Maybe in Texas you could but this is Florida.
You are completely wrong. If you tell someone to stop talking at a theater and they then pull out a gun and start shooting at you, you started the confrontation, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot them in self defense.

There is a difference between initiating a violent interaction (pulling a gun on someone for no reason, having them reach for a rock to throw at you, and you shooting them out of "self defense") and initiating a confrontation that does not necessarily mean that violence is forthcoming.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:28 PM   #754
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Agreed.
Even as a legal CCW carrier, you cannot instigate a confrontation then use deadly force to end the confrontation and call it self-defense.
Maybe in Texas you could but this is Florida.
The problem for the prosecution will be that it might seem 'reasonable' that Trayvon martin was the instigator if he punched Zimmerman in the face when approached by him. Just approaching someone is not 'instigating' anything. If you approach someone and ask them a question, they punch you in the face...all bets are off. It becomes self defense there.....I'm not asserting that is what happened, I'm just suggesting that it could be a reasonable scenario, based on the evidence.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:30 PM   #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
You are completely wrong. If you tell someone to stop talking at a theater and they then pull out a gun and start shooting at you, you started the confrontation, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot them in self defense.

There is a difference between initiating a violent interaction (pulling a gun on someone for no reason, having them reach for a rock to throw at you, and you shooting them out of "self defense") and initiating a confrontation that does not necessarily mean that violence is forthcoming.
Ok, change “confrontation” for “altercation” since that’s what we were discussing.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:33 PM   #756
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Ok, change “confrontation” for “altercation” since that’s what we were discussing.
You can change the wording to whatever you want...call it 'fight.'

If You approach someone, ask them a question....that does not mean you are starting an altercation / fight. Even if you are rude. It doesn't give that person the right to punch you in the face. Punching the person in the face would be where I consider the _____(insert word here)____ to start. I think most jurors would tend to agree with me. You don't have the right to defend yourslef with force if someone is rude to you. You do if someone punches you.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:36 PM   #757
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Ok, change “confrontation” for “altercation” since that’s what we were discussing.
Semantics that changes nothing. If your actions were neither violent nor threatening, you are fully within your rights to defend yourself if someone responds with violence. If you were legitimately provoking someone, that might change things, but asking someone where he's going doesn't constitute provoking violence.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:37 PM   #758
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:38 PM   #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
The problem for the prosecution will be that it might seem 'reasonable' that Trayvon martin was the instigator if he punched Zimmerman in the face when approached by him. Just approaching someone is not 'instigating' anything. If you approach someone and ask them a question, they punch you in the face...all bets are off. It becomes self defense there.....I'm not asserting that is what happened, I'm just suggesting that it could be a reasonable scenario, based on the evidence.
Agreed, and from the police report it does sound like Martin was whoopin Zimmerman’s ass.
The part that I just can’t get past is that none of this needed to happen. He could’ve followed Trayvon to wherever he was going and lead police there without the confrontation.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:40 PM   #760
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Semantics that changes nothing. If your actions were neither violent nor threatening, you are fully within your rights to defend yourself if someone responds with violence. If you were legitimately provoking someone, that might change things, but asking someone where he's going doesn't constitute provoking violence.
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
You can change the wording to whatever you want...call it 'fight.'

If You approach someone, ask them a question....that does not mean you are starting an altercation / fight. Even if you are rude. It doesn't give that person the right to punch you in the face. Punching the person in the face would be where I consider the _____(insert word here)____ to start. I think most jurors would tend to agree with me. You don't have the right to defend yourslef with force if someone is rude to you. You do if someone punches you.
Did you two just now start reading my posts?
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:45 PM   #761
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Agreed, and from the police report it does sound like Martin was whoopin Zimmerman’s ass.
The part that I just can’t get past is that none of this needed to happen. He could’ve followed Trayvon to wherever he was going and lead police there without the confrontation.
Oh I agree...and as much as it sucks to say, I can say this because I am not family of the victim or Zimmerman...but

This is a very interesting case, really in some grey legal areas. I mean with taxes/revenue being cut, more neighborhood watch type programs will need to exist...There was an article that said in Zimmermans neighborhood of 200ish apartments, there were 400 police calls the prior 12 months , with something like 1 shooting, and 20ish break ins/robberies. So I can hardly blame citizens for protecting their property and rights.....we have citizen arrest capability for a reason.

I had read that Trayvon Martin was suspended from school at the time...I'd be interested to know what for, and if he had any record of gang involvement. Everyone says their kid is a good kid...I work in property management , and have dealt with gang-banger kids younger than him that were dangerous, and their parents think theyre angels.

There are two sides to every story...This will be a fascinating case....It is a tragedy, of course but maybe we can grow as a society. For example, everyone was screaming 'zimmerman was white, this is racist!" at 1st but maybe now that it is a known fact that he speaks spanish, is latino and has black family and many friends even in that neighborhood.....maybe people wont be so hasty to pull out the race card next time.

Who knows, I just hope something good comes of this.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:46 PM   #762
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Did you two just now start reading my posts?
I did, yah..came home from work just now.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:48 PM   #763
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I did, yah..came home from work just now.
that’s OK, just that you’re saying the same things I have been, we don’t disagree here. Same with Saul.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:54 PM   #764
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Oh I agree...and as much as it sucks to say, I can say this because I am not family of the victim or Zimmerman...but

This is a very interesting case, really in some grey legal areas. I mean with taxes/revenue being cut, more neighborhood watch type programs will need to exist...There was an article that said in Zimmermans neighborhood of 200ish apartments, there were 400 police calls the prior 12 months , with something like 1 shooting, and 20ish break ins/robberies. So I can hardly blame citizens for protecting their property and rights.....we have citizen arrest capability for a reason.

I had read that Trayvon Martin was suspended from school at the time...I'd be interested to know what for, and if he had any record of gang involvement. Everyone says their kid is a good kid...I work in property management , and have dealt with gang-banger kids younger than him that were dangerous, and their parents think theyre angels.

There are two sides to every story...This will be a fascinating case....It is a tragedy, of course but maybe we can grow as a society. For example, everyone was screaming 'zimmerman was white, this is racist!" at 1st but maybe now that it is a known fact that he speaks spanish, is latino and has black family and many friends even in that neighborhood.....maybe people wont be so hasty to pull out the race card next time.

Who knows, I just hope something good comes of this.
I saw that. The article also quoted someone in the neighborhood saying he, I’m assuming they meant Zimmerman, helped the police solve many of the break-ins they were experiencing. Which may be part of why they weren’t quick with charges, they know Zimmerman.
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:56 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Oh I agree...and as much as it sucks to say, I can say this because I am not family of the victim or Zimmerman...but

This is a very interesting case, really in some grey legal areas. I mean with taxes/revenue being cut, more neighborhood watch type programs will need to exist...There was an article that said in Zimmermans neighborhood of 200ish apartments, there were 400 police calls the prior 12 months , with something like 1 shooting, and 20ish break ins/robberies. So I can hardly blame citizens for protecting their property and rights.....we have citizen arrest capability for a reason.

I had read that Trayvon Martin was suspended from school at the time...I'd be interested to know what for, and if he had any record of gang involvement. Everyone says their kid is a good kid...I work in property management , and have dealt with gang-banger kids younger than him that were dangerous, and their parents think theyre angels.

There are two sides to every story...This will be a fascinating case....It is a tragedy, of course but maybe we can grow as a society. For example, everyone was screaming 'zimmerman was white, this is racist!" at 1st but maybe now that it is a known fact that he speaks spanish, is latino and has black family and many friends even in that neighborhood.....maybe people wont be so hasty to pull out the race card next time.

Who knows, I just hope something good comes of this.
The report I read said he had no criminal history and no school record related to violence.
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