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Old 02-02-2011, 02:24 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Arizona posturing for de facto seccession

File this under "nullification isn't as dead as some would like you to believe it is."


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E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog
E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic.

Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

Members of the state Legislature, including Arizona's de facto governor, Senate President Russell Pearce, have introduced a bill that essentially would have Arizona secede from the union without having to do so officially.

Really.

It's called SB1433, (See it here.) It creates a 12-member committee within the legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government…"

Committee members themselves would decide this, then pass along their recommendation to the full Legislature. If, in turn, a majority of state lawmakers go along with the committee then, according to the bill, "this state and its citizens shall not recognize or be obligated to live under the statute, mandate or executive order."

The nullification committee also would be permitted to review all existing federal laws to see if our legislative geniuses want to toss them out as well.

In every legislative session in every state throughout the land there are proposals like this, usually made by a few fringe members who know their proposal has no chance but file it anyway to serve some personal or political agenda.

In this instance, legislators here -- who claim to be strict constitutionalists -- seem fairly willing to ignore what is commonly called the "supremacy clause" of the U.S. Constitution (as well as the Fourteenth Amendment), and which more or less say that federal law supersedes state law.

A state or a person can challenge such laws in court. But a state can't on its own simply declare a federal law to be unconsitutional.

Legislators who propose such things often are quietly patted on the heads and laughed off by their colleagues.

In our case, however, the legislation is being proposed by, among others, Sen. Pearce, the most powerful person in state government.

So, as wacky as the proposal is, that makes it much less of a laughing matter.

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:45 PM   #31
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Silly.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Yeah, that'll show em'!!!
That's how you do things in our country. Is it easy? **** no. But that's the point. Your idea of change is ignorant and vomit-inducing. **** you for your disregard of history and perspective. **** you. You barely deserve this country.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:47 PM   #33
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Enough trade to keep Arizona viable? Come on. This is just like some kid throwing a fit, crossing his arms, and refusing to eat his peas.
You act like they can't buy and sell stuff if they left. Come on. Markets are markets. That's just a statist pov that no one can survive without an other state. Exchange and production are the keys to prosperity—not federal handouts. Only if there's an embargo by our Feds could it be a problem. Still, they'd have China.

It would only affect them in terms of federal funds.

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If the lawmakers and those in power have a problem with Washington to this magnitude, I'm thinking there may be several different options to get the point across without risking the well being of the residents of the state (not that I ever take any talk of any state wanting secede seriously).
You don't know if it harms the well-being of the residents of that state. That's up to those residents to weigh the pros and cons of that. If they think leaving is better it's their choice. I mean it's not like they can't come back either. Secession is one of the last checks and balances against the federal govt. It the Feds learn to back off then their mission is accomplished.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Otter View Post
The possible outcomes to this are interesting to say the least.
"interesting" is one way to put hundreds of thousands of American deaths.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:49 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Silly.
It's no sillier than when the original 13 colonies broke their ties with England, True Brit.
I mean it's based on the same words in the Declaration of Independence. Then, I'd expect a Tory to think this.

Were you against it when the Soviet Empire broke up? Why are the previous two good but this one silly?
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:50 PM   #36
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That's how you do things in our country. Is it easy? **** no. But that's the point. Your idea of change is ignorant and vomit-inducing. **** you for your disregard of history and perspective. **** you. You barely deserve this country.
We have been changing hands in D.C. since this country began and look where we are??? You're fairly naive if you think sending 2 or 3 different people from a State here and there is going to make any kind of real difference.

Oh and **** you for having your head in the sand.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's no sillier than when the original 13 colonies broke their ties with England, True Brit.
I mean it's based on the same words in the Declaration of Independence. Then, I'd expect a Tory to think this.

Were you against it when the Soviet Empire broke up? Why are the previous two good but this one silly?
That's equally silly. Arizona has representation in Congress.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:51 PM   #38
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"interesting" is one way to put hundreds of thousands of American deaths.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:51 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's no sillier than when the original 13 colonies broke their ties with England, True Brit.
I mean it's based on the same words in the Declaration of Independence. Then, I'd expect a Tory to think this.

Were you against it when the Soviet Empire broke up? Why are the previous two good but this one silly?
This is the perspective of these people: the USA = USSR. It deserves to be broken up.

This should shock people. This should piss people off. But a lot of people are nodding their heads at this bullshit.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:54 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
We have been changing hands in D.C. since this country began and look where we are??? You're fairly naive if you think sending 2 or 3 different people from a State here and there is going to make any kind of real difference.

Oh and **** you for having your head in the sand.
Yeah, where are we? We have 1) the most powerful military in the world 2) the most powerful economy in the world 3) the most social or soft power in the world 4) the finest universities in the world 5) the ability to create almost anything we can dream up 6) the right to speak our minds 7) the right to send representatives to congress to make laws for us 8) the right to practice what religion we want 9) the right to protest the government in the streets

Yeah, look where we are.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:54 PM   #41
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That's equally silly. Arizona has representation in Congress.
You think that was the only reason the colonies left? It was many usurpations including mercantilist trade issues.

And no, many in this country feel they no longer have politicians that are listening to the people as reps, if you listen better.


"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."


Sounds to me like AZ has reached this point.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:55 PM   #42
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:55 PM   #43
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Something happened between 1861 and 1864. Google it, see what you find.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:56 PM   #44
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That's equally silly. Arizona has representation in Congress.
BFD. As we have seen, Representation means little anymore these days. If the President doesn't like it, he backdoors it. If the opposing party doesn't like it they water it down or attach what one could call counter-measures to a bill. That's how you end up where we are, Donger. Broke. We are broke. This country is broke. Financially and even legally to a high degree. And it all stems from Congress doing everything they aren't supposed to do and doing little for what they are supposed to do. As of late the Fed Gov has been over-stepping their bounds in a gross way and when States don't support them they get sued. We are caught in a downward spiral and unfortuantely it usually takes hitting a brick wall before the people in charge decide they have to turn the boat around.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:56 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
We have been changing hands in D.C. since this country began and look where we are??? You're fairly naive if you think sending 2 or 3 different people from a State here and there is going to make any kind of real difference.

Oh and **** you for having your head in the sand.
Thanks for quoting him. I see he's still trolling about.
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