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Old 02-02-2011, 02:24 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Arizona posturing for de facto seccession

File this under "nullification isn't as dead as some would like you to believe it is."


http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/117684


E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog
E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic.

Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

Members of the state Legislature, including Arizona's de facto governor, Senate President Russell Pearce, have introduced a bill that essentially would have Arizona secede from the union without having to do so officially.

Really.

It's called SB1433, (See it here.) It creates a 12-member committee within the legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government…"

Committee members themselves would decide this, then pass along their recommendation to the full Legislature. If, in turn, a majority of state lawmakers go along with the committee then, according to the bill, "this state and its citizens shall not recognize or be obligated to live under the statute, mandate or executive order."

The nullification committee also would be permitted to review all existing federal laws to see if our legislative geniuses want to toss them out as well.

In every legislative session in every state throughout the land there are proposals like this, usually made by a few fringe members who know their proposal has no chance but file it anyway to serve some personal or political agenda.

In this instance, legislators here -- who claim to be strict constitutionalists -- seem fairly willing to ignore what is commonly called the "supremacy clause" of the U.S. Constitution (as well as the Fourteenth Amendment), and which more or less say that federal law supersedes state law.

A state or a person can challenge such laws in court. But a state can't on its own simply declare a federal law to be unconsitutional.

Legislators who propose such things often are quietly patted on the heads and laughed off by their colleagues.

In our case, however, the legislation is being proposed by, among others, Sen. Pearce, the most powerful person in state government.

So, as wacky as the proposal is, that makes it much less of a laughing matter.

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:17 PM   #16
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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It's hard to believe that some people who live in this country, who work in government, don't want to be an American citizen.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
If the supreme court says something is constitutional, it doesn't become unconstitutional just because you say so. SOMEONE has to have the final determination of that question, and that someone is the SCOTUS.

I understand that you think Madison should have lost, but judicial review is now over 200 years old and will not go away. If you dont like something the supreme court said, you have a few options: live with it, impeach the justices, ask congress to create new judges (there's nothing written in stone that says it has to be nine), or secede. Saying "no, you are wrong and we wont follow that decision" is not an option unless your state wants to leave the union.
Welp, that shut her the **** up.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:24 PM   #18
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Welp, that shut her the **** up.
No it didn't. I just went offline to make dinner and eat. He's entitled to his opinion and I don't have to argue every point with every poster and it doesn't mean I feel shut up or that I agree. I've heard that opinion many, many times before. The SC is not the sole arbiter of what is Constitutional and that was not how states conducted themselves in the early days of the Republic either. Does that mean the central govt may not use force? Not on your life. Doesn't mean that might makes right is all.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Simple question -

How will Arizona sustain itself if they do secede?
I was wondering that myself.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants View Post
Welp, that shut her the **** up.
That's a person, and I use that term lightly, who has spent the past four years on several different message boards posting tens of thousands of dogmatic, ideologically bent ignorance and prejudice. The internet has given her the opportunity to shirk community, parenting, and life for this misery. She won't shut up, because this is all she has.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Simple question -

How will Arizona sustain itself if they do secede?
Sell fake driver's California driver's licenses.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
If the supreme court says something is constitutional, it doesn't become unconstitutional just because you say so. SOMEONE has to have the final determination of that question, and that someone is the SCOTUS.

I understand that you think Madison should have lost, but judicial review is now over 200 years old and will not go away. If you dont like something the supreme court said, you have a few options: live with it, impeach the justices, ask congress to create new judges (there's nothing written in stone that says it has to be nine), or secede. Saying "no, you are wrong and we wont follow that decision" is not an option unless your state wants to leave the union.
It also doesn't mean it's Constitutional either. It has nothing to do with whether or not I say so. In the early days of the Republic states did ignore legislation they thought was unConstitutional. And the union is also voluntary. So states can leave.
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Last edited by BucEyedPea; 02-02-2011 at 06:34 PM..
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:28 PM   #23
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I was wondering that myself.
That's a common question statists make. It shows how dependent states have become. There's such a thing as trade too. There can be trade between states.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I truly believe (and have spoke about it for a long time) that in time we will see a coalition of states that adopt a similar posture in an attempt to corral the federal government.
Why can't you just focus on sending different congressmen to Washington? What the **** makes you think that this country should not be all in it together?
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:38 PM   #25
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Dear Arizona political elite,

Stop trying to ruin this great country.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Dear Arizona political elite,

Stop trying to ruin this great country.
signed Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan...
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:42 PM   #27
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Russell Pearce: defender of freedom.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...rican0417.html

Except he wants to dictate to you which classes to teach, what to teach, and how to form associations.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:42 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Why can't you just focus on sending different congressmen to Washington? What the **** makes you think that this country should not be all in it together?
Yeah, that'll show em'!!!
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:43 PM   #29
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That's a common question statists make. It shows how dependent states have become. There's such a thing as trade too. There can be trade between states.
Enough trade to keep Arizona viable? Come on. This is just like some kid throwing a fit, crossing his arms, and refusing to eat his peas.

If the lawmakers and those in power have a problem with Washington to this magnitude, I'm thinking there may be several different options to get the point across without risking the well being of the residents of the state (not that I ever take any talk of any state wanting secede seriously).
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by J-Town Fan 1988 View Post
signed Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan...
No, that was Jenson71. Stop trying to ruin my country. It's a great country, and it's a great thing for the world. The United States of America is one of the finest political associations in human history. It nearly came to an end in 1861. It rose to become a beacon of freedom, opportunity, and progress for the entire world. I'd like to keep that flame alive.
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