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Old 01-29-2010, 05:57 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Obama increased the debt more than Reagan and George W.....Myth and BS

The biggest contributors to the total federal debt, by far, are Republicans, starting with President Ronald Reagan, who doubled the debt during his eight years, from about $1.6 trillion to over $3.0 trillion, and George H.W. Bush, who added another $1.5 trillion in just four years, before George W. added nearly $5 trillion.

In fact, over his eight-year reign, George W. watched the total deficit go from about $5.7 trillion to $10.625 trillion, an increase of almost $5 trillion! And, in his last full fiscal year (2007/2008), which ended September 30, 2008, there was an increase of almost $1 trillion ($0.962 trillion) for just one year!

When President Obama took office on January 20, 2009, the federal debt stood at $10.626 trillion. As of the end of September, which is the end of a 2008/2009 federal fiscal year, the debt was $11.776 trillion, or an increase of about $1.15 trillion. Before President Obama took office, about $500 billion already had been spent in the 2008/2009 federal fiscal year…by the no-contest winner of the federal-deficit Presidents: George W. Bush.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
He's not spending less. You posted the numbers... how could you not know this?

Reagan CUT top tax rates by 60%. Obama wants to RAISE top tax rates by almost 12% (to 39.1% not 35%).
Since I voted for both, I win!
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:03 AM   #17
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This may help if you want to understand more about debt and deficit:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg2178.cfm
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
This may help if you want to understand more about debt and deficit:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg2178.cfm
HCF, he doesn't want to understand, he just wants to scream about the situation as he understands it.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:22 AM   #19
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BRC is pretty reasonable so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he looks at the information on that link.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Thats right. He's spending less, he's not raising taxes like Reagan and his top tax rate he wants to have is 34%. Reagans was what 70%? Again, context.
Doug...

....uh, you really needed to re-examine the facts if that is your mistaken understanding.

BTW, link?
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
BRC is pretty reasonable so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he looks at the information on that link.
We seem to have very different opinions of BRC.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:21 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
This may help if you want to understand more about debt and deficit:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg2178.cfm
I did go look at the link. I agrree with some points but its a group/viewpoint thats too far to the right so I can't trust their conclusions or #'s. It would be like trusting Daily Kos for factual information.

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Sorry, even if what they say may be true their political direction and purpose is a one sided agenda.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Doug...

....uh, you really needed to re-examine the facts if that is your mistaken understanding.

BTW, link?
My point and "understanding" is that some on here need some historical context in their thought process. What is happening today is not a lot different from what has happened in the past.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:30 AM   #24
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My point and "understanding" is that some on here need some historical context in their thought process. What is happening today is not a lot different from what has happened in the past.
When did the government bail out wallstreet in the past? When did they take over corporations and dictate policy with them? I think your objectivity is really in the dumper there dude.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:49 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I did go look at the link. I agrree with some points but its a group/viewpoint thats too far to the right so I can't trust their conclusions or #'s. It would be like trusting Daily Kos for factual information.

Our Mission
To formulate and promote conservative public policies


Sorry, even if what they say may be true their political direction and purpose is a one sided agenda.
Good lord, you can't possibly be comparing the Daily Kos with the Heritage Foundation. WTF?

Compare Heritage with the Brookings Institute or with the faculty at Harvard if you want, but Kos? Don't bogart that joint. You've had enough.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:58 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Good lord, you can't possibly be comparing the Daily Kos with the Heritage Foundation. WTF?

Compare Heritage with the Brookings Institute or with the faculty at Harvard if you want, but Kos? Don't bogart that joint. You've had enough.
I don't know what goes on reguarlly at Daily Kos since I don't visit there. I've been pointed to the heritage foundation by Republicans before. It is a partisan website and think tank. That was my point, not that Daily Kos and the Heritage foundation are on the same intellectual level.

And my experience is that the Heritage foundation is not filled with BS lies but they do slant their stories, facts to match their political viewpoint. Nothing wrong with that other than it makes them partisan website.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:47 AM   #27
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I did go look at the link. I agrree with some points but its a group/viewpoint thats too far to the right so I can't trust their conclusions or #'s. It would be like trusting Daily Kos for factual information.

Our Mission
To formulate and promote conservative public policies


Sorry, even if what they say may be true their political direction and purpose is a one sided agenda.
Every data point referenced is reference linked to federal sites to support the data. Sadly in our high paced and intellectually shallow world, we have developed into a culture of doubt the information becuse we have some bias directed at the source. Instead of learning from the information, its far to easy to toss it because of a bias, fact based or not.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:19 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I don't know what goes on reguarlly at Daily Kos since I don't visit there. I've been pointed to the heritage foundation by Republicans before. It is a partisan website and think tank. That was my point, not that Daily Kos and the Heritage foundation are on the same intellectual level.

And my experience is that the Heritage foundation is not filled with BS lies but they do slant their stories, facts to match their political viewpoint. Nothing wrong with that other than it makes them partisan website.
OK, fair enough. I don't think it's right to say that they slant their stories to match their viewpoints though. I think it would be more fair to say that their viewpoints/theories inform their assumptions and their models and that their conclusions flow naturally from there. Same as any good analyst.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:41 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Every data point referenced is reference linked to federal sites to support the data. Sadly in our high paced and intellectually shallow world, we have developed into a culture of doubt the information becuse we have some bias directed at the source. Instead of learning from the information, its far to easy to toss it because of a bias, fact based or not.
I agree. Hence the rights disbelief of any #'s published by the white house.

I'm not saying anything negative about the heritage foundation other than its a partisan website. Factual statistics can be made to match a certain viewpoint without even that much effort in the era of google.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:37 PM   #30
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It takes two to tango...both congress and president are responsible for the ongoing debt problems. Reagan's tax rate cuts nearly doubled the revenues to the treasury and still they couldnt stop spending...they outspent their revenues.

Bottom line this has got to stop.

If it was bad in Bush's day to deficit spend, it's bad now too. The latest budgets proposed have 1 Trillion dollar deficits for several years and by 2019, the debt will be about 70% of GDP. Also, This doesn't take into account those things like Social Security which will also go negative in 9 years.

I would like to think we can all agree on these points regardless of bias. If so, why doesn't those in control of government reverse course and immediately? Either they're irretrievably stupid or it's intentional.

Neither option is comforting.
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