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Old 09-12-2009, 09:50 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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It's time for large # of troops to GTFO of Afghanistan.

It's a no win situation for us. Brave Americans are fighting a war in which there is no hope of winning. In this type of war there will never be a "winner". All we are doing is providing easy targets for Taliban to kill.

We can't just ignore military history there and say our effort will be different.

We went into Afganistan with 1,300 troops. When the Taliban fell we had 2.500 troops on the ground. We now have 60,000 troops on the ground and the Taliban control 40-70% of the country's territory.

The new commander in Afghanistan says he sees no evidence of a large Al-Quaeda presense in Afghanistan. That is and will always be the only reason for us to be in Afghanistan. The only reason we are there in the first place. The only reason to sacrifice American lives.

I think we should hunt down and kill every single member of Al=Quaeda, no matter where they are hiding.

We shouldn't be sacrificing American lives to nation build in Afghanistan. Yeah, they want to go back to the 12th century but why should we sacrifice American lives to keep that from happening? Not worth it.

But if we leave the Taliban will take over swiftly and then provide a safe -haven for Al-Quaeda? We don't let that happen. We put cruise millsle up their azz. We send out the drones. We use special forces to take them out.

Edited:

I'm convinced that this is the right decision for these reasons.
  • We can't nation build in Afghanistan. We shouldn't be using our resources and sacrificing our troops to help them. Thats not why we are there. $300 billion spent so far. 900 brave Americans dead. Entering it's 9th year. Just when will it be enough?
  • The argument that the Taliban and Al-Quaeda will just come back may be true but there are several problems with that. Al-Quaeda can be anywhere in the world. So we keep them out of Afghanistan, they show up in Pakistan, Somalia, where ever. I read there is only 100 Al-Quaeda operatives in Afghanistan. There are probably more than that in the USA. If we keep them out of Afghanistan. they will just go some other place. We need a 21st century approach. We won't be able to defeat Al-Quaeda with conventional weapons and strategy. We can always go back in with surgical strikes to take out prime targets and more large scale attacks to prevent Al-Quaeda from establishing bases again. We can't let 100,000 Americans become easy to reach targets for Al-Quaeda.
  • The government is corrupt beyond repair. For those who want to nation build, how can you with a totally corrupt government that the people don't trust? Nation building won't work no matter how many troops or how much money you throw at the problem with a corrupt government distrusted by the people.
  • Afghanistan has no resources. What exactly are they going to make money at, build their country with? It would be a transfer of wealth from us to them.
  • The population outside of Kabul is run by drug overlords. The majority of the population works in the poppy fields because its the only way they can feed their family. How are we going to change that? Provide jobs for those people to feed their families? A lot of those poppy field profits are going right to the Taliban. Just how are you going to end this cycle without a major infusion of American money. Again, a transfer of wealth.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-27-2009 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:21 AM   #16
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And yet even if we do that, we still don't win. Al-Quaeds are like cockroaches we will have to go in every cave, turn over every rock to kill them.
And kill them we must, before they kill us. We cannot coexist on a planet with those bloodthirsty subhumans.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:21 AM   #17
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Dear Leader promised us he would remove the distraction that is Iraq and win in Afghanistan.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:22 AM   #18
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And kill them we must, before they kill us. We cannot coexist on a planet with those bloodthirsty subhumans.
Dear Leader tells me that terrorists merely have disagreements with us. They only kill thousands of people because they have no other outlet to express their frustration. They're just misunderstood and disenfranchised.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:23 AM   #19
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How can a country that is half full of idiots, who faint at the thought of cutting a chickens throat, win a war with blood thirsty jackles who would send their own children into a public place with a bomb strapped on thier back to further their cause?

It is time to buck up America, before you lose it.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:25 AM   #20
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  1. I don't think we should leave Afganistan at all. It's the real war we should have been fighting for the last 8 years.
  2. Iraq turned around for 2 reasons:
    • because a program called the "Concerned Local Citizens" where we paid off off 70,000 AQI supporting Sunni insurgents to fight for us not against us. That's a net 140,000 troop surge.
    • Ethnic segregation
  3. We won't be able to buy off a faction of the Taliban in Afganistan, so it's a far harder problem to solve.
  4. We aren't going to be allowed into Pakistan to hunt AQ there so we need to keep the pressure on where we can.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:26 AM   #21
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How can a country that is half full of idiots, who feint at the thought of cutting a chickens throat, win a war with blood thirsty jackles who would send their own children into a public place with a bomb strapped on thier back to further their cause?

It is time to buck up America, before you lose it.
In a way, I agree with the thread.

Certainly it would be disastrous to wave the white flag to Al Queda. But at the same time - it's obvious Our Leader does not have the stomach to do what it takes regardless of political consequences. We should not be in a war when Our Leader does not support the troops completely all the way to win no matter how difficult it may be.

The thing is, there's no political risk here. Dear Leader's fawning press won't beat him up over Afghanistan. There aren't political consequences at risk. That's why he's content to let the situation fester. There's no cost to him right now, there would only be a potential political price to him if he did something to try to win and it didnt work.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:38 AM   #22
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Hear Ye! Hear Ye!

I'm with Big Red Robbin' Hood on this one!

And if anyone thinks conventional military is the main way to fight terrorism, they are drinkin' macho-ego Kool-Aid.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:42 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by wild1 View Post
In a way, I agree with the thread.

Certainly it would be disastrous to wave the white flag to Al Queda. But at the same time - it's obvious Our Leader does not have the stomach to do what it takes regardless of political consequences. We should not be in a war when Our Leader does not support the troops completely all the way to win no matter how difficult it may be.

The thing is, there's no political risk here. Dear Leader's fawning press won't beat him up over Afghanistan. There aren't political consequences at risk. That's why he's content to let the situation fester. There's no cost to him right now, there would only be a potential political price to him if he did something to try to win and it didnt work.
If we, the right, were a bunch of low life scum sucking, traitorous pieces of shit like Harry Reid, we should give a fug if Obama loses his war. It would be good for our party.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:44 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Hear Ye! Hear Ye!

I'm with Big Red Robbin' Hood on this one!

And if anyone thinks conventional military is the main way to fight terrorism, they are drinkin' macho-ego Kool-Aid.
I would use all means to fight them. Be glad I am not president.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:47 AM   #25
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Afghanistan is Obama's war.
Only after the American public took power away from Republicans to give it to him.

Make no mistake. Both wars represent Republican shame. Listening to Bush voters whine about how weak Obama is after watching Bush play with his pud for years with a failed strategy while American troops died would be funny if there weren't so much blood on the ground.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:56 AM   #26
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The truth is were not after Al Quaeda nor Osama, were there because it's an unwinnable war. Al Ciaduh works for the CIA and someday everyone will wake up and smell the coffee.
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Old 09-12-2009, 11:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcountry View Post
How can a country that is half full of idiots, who faint at the thought of cutting a chickens throat, win a war with blood thirsty jackles who would send their own children into a public place with a bomb strapped on thier back to further their cause?

It is time to buck up America, before you lose it.
We can't "win". No matter how much America bucks up.

Please explain to me what a "win" in Afghanistan means to you.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 09-12-2009, 11:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
The truth is were not after Al Quaeda nor Osama, were there because it's an unwinnable war. Al Ciaduh works for the CIA and someday everyone will wake up and smell the coffee.
Al-Quaeda works for the CIA?
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Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 09-12-2009, 11:41 AM   #29
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It was winnable. In a matter of a month the Taliban were ousted and running for their lives. We went there to liberate the people from tyrannical leaders and then replaced them with... tyrannical leaders.

In that first year we watched as women were granted rights and access they hadn't seen. Then right before the recent election Karzai and their governing body passed a law allowing men:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ns-rights-rape

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To deny wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review.

The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work.

"It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying 'blood money' to a girl who was injured when he raped her," the US charity Human Rights Watch said.
So right now there have about 1500 coalition troop deaths and 4500 total maimed and injured. No sure what the civilian count is up to now. So in the end I think we'll just end up paying off warlords who agree not to harbor AQ.

If Obama had any balls at all he would told Karzai that unless that law is rescinded immediately, the entire US military and all support is withdrawn.

So many mistakes...
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Old 09-12-2009, 11:45 AM   #30
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish View Post
It was winnable. In a matter of a month the Taliban were ousted and running for their lives. We went there to liberate the people from tyrannical leaders and then replaced them with... tyrannical leaders.

In that first year we watched as women were granted rights and access they hadn't seen. Then right before the recent election Karzai and their governing body passed a law allowing men:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ns-rights-rape



So right now there have about 1500 coalition troop deaths and 4500 total maimed and injured. No sure what the civilian count is up to now. So in the end I think we'll just end up paying off warlords who agree not to harbor AQ.

If Obama had any balls at all he would told Karzai that unless that law is rescinded immediately, the entire US military and all support is withdrawn.

So many mistakes...
Was, the operative word. Not now. Bush dropped the ball. His policies failed to capitialize on the total collapse of the Taliban and to take advantage of the good will when we liberated them from the Taliban.

Now our only hope is 100,000 troops and bribing them not to kill us. And I don't think that will work in the long run either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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