***The Santos vs. Succop Thread***

[Dante84]

Surprisingly enough, this is going to likely be the most talked about preseason battle outside of our QB battle. Let this be the thread where we let our thoughts be known throughout camp and the games.

Here is an interesting article with some good stats:

BOOM!

Cairo Santos turns heads. No. Wait.

THUD!

He wounds ears. It's a brontosaurus in a tutu, dancing through the tulips. No. Hang on.

THOOM!

It's like Thor taking that giant hammer of his and playing table tennis with your head. Yeah. That's it.

WHAM!

"With no wind, or indoors, (the range is) 60," Santos, the rookie kicker who's been one of the talking points of Kansas City Chiefs training camp, recently told reporters. "If I have the wind to my back, I think 65. I can go into the wind around 50. So, it's all about staying fresh for game day and you can hit those long ones."

Kickers do not reach the radar of cynical scribes in the spring and summer, especially when there's an established veteran -- Ryan Succop -- on hand, especially when the competition is perceived to be more ceremonial than substantive.

But then we heard the sound. That booming, wacky Thor/table tennis sound, again and again.

If Dustin Colquitt can bring rain, Cairo Santos brings thunder.

"I've said this before, I think he's an NFL-caliber kicker," special teams coordinator Dave Toub, the recipient of outright trust -- if not love -- from Chiefs fans after his renovation job of the last 15 months. "I think he's going to be in the NFL, whether it's on our team or on another team. The competition is real and we're excited about Cairo and what he's able to bring."

What's even more remarkable is that it's brought from a cat who checks in at 5-foot-8, 160 pounds and change, soaking wet. The Brazillian's right leg is the football equivalent of one of those Bose-brand Bluetooth speakers, a lollipop that swings like a bloody sledgehammer.

"I think because I'm not a big guy, and strong like the other NFL kickers, that I rely on technique and consistency," said Santos, the 2012 Lou Groza Award winner during his junior season at Tulane. "I have short steps that give me that consistency and follow-through, so I just rely on my consistency."

The sound of the ball of Santos' foot got everybody's attention in May. The fact he's still bringing it has kept this subplot bubbling into preseason training camp. Succop, 27, clearly has a fight on his hands, even if the fight is only for another few weeks. Santos has been impressive enough in practices and head-to-head competition that those same cynical scribes have started to notice Succop's price tag, especially with the Justin Houston and Alex Smith contract sagas ongoing.

According to OverTheCap.com, Succop is working with a $2.708 million cap number this fall and a $3.508 million number in 2015. If the Chiefs cut him, they project to increase their 2014 cap cushion from $5.696 million to $6.18 million -- but the real savings would be next fall, lifting their '15 cap room from $12.916 million to $16.425 million.

Not that any of this is necessarily Succop's fault -- he's made good on 81 percent of his field-goal tries since 2009 and, over the last three seasons, the Chiefs' incumbent kicker is a solid 6-for-10 on shots from 50 yards out or greater.

But Succop was also just 1-for-4 from that distance last year. And while OverTheCap.com lists him as the 12th-highest-paid kicker in the NFL, Pro Football Focus (PFF.com) ranked him 18th among NFL starting kickers in 2011, 28th in 2012 and 19th last season -- an average placement of 22nd.

PFF.com ranked the former Gamecock No. 19 among qualified kickers in terms of kickoff effectiveness in 2011; No. 29 in 2012; and No. 15 in 2013. Again: Solid. Not elite.

Throwing Santos into the mix thickens the plot. And the pot. With Thor's hammer doing the dirty work, Tulane led all Football Bowl Subdivision schools last fall in touchback percentage on kickoffs (75.81) and ranked 12th nationally in 2012 (55.36). In 2013, only two of Santos' kickoffs failed to reach the end zone.

As a junior, Santos became just the second kicker in modern FBS history to take 20 or more attempts and make all 20 -- he was 21-for-21, including a 57-yarder and a 54-yarder.

Granted, the Green Wave played their home tilts at the kicker-friendly Superdome, which brings up the usual caveats and questions. Namely:

Can he kick outdoors? Of Tulane's 29 kickoffs at road/neutral sites last fall, a whopping 86.21 percent went for touchbacks.

Can he kick in crappy weather? Of the Green Wave's 21 kicks on November 1, 2013 or later, 17 -- 80.9 percent of them -- were touchbacks, including three of four after November 30.

"Whether it's here or somewhere else, he looks like he has a leg to be a NFL kicker," coach Andy Reid said last month, sharing Toub's caveat. "We'll see."

Accuracy is the trick, the question, the great unknown. Away from the dome, Santos connected on just 6-of-11 field goals last fall. He was 9-for-9 in 2012; 5-for-8 in 2011 and 5-for-7 in 2010. Career road/neutral conversion rate: 25-for-35, or 71.4 percent.

Point of comparison: Succop's rate at South Carolina from 2005-08 was 21-for-35, or 60 percent.

POW!

"The biggest thing for me is to impress this coaching staff," Santos said. "If I can't get a job here, I trust that they'll put in a word to another team for me. I know that coach Toub is very well-respected in the NFL, so I'm thankful to be kicking in front of this staff. And I know whatever happens, they'll be willing to help me out."

Whatever happens, the last three months should wind up turning into something good for Santos, somewhere. Even it's only just a friendly push, chances are it'll lead to something good for Succop, too. And either way, something even better for the Chiefs. Something loud.

http://www.foxsports.com/kansas-city...fs-camp-072814

[Hootie]

21st in 2012

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by cmh6476

where does the nameless one fit in your equation?

I'd hate to see what Tynes would have done had Bowe made that catch in bounds in the playoffs this past year...

I have a feeling it would have had a similar end result to the nameless one

[Hootie]

20th in 2011

(THIS IS NOT LEAGUE AVERAGE. THIS IS SHITTY. THIS IS NOT GOOD)

In today's NFL..."above average" is 88-91%

our guy did that once. as a rookie. on a SHIT **** STAIN of a team.

Cut this guy. YESTERDAY.

[Hootie]

24th in 2010

10th in 2009 (86% / league average)

why in ****'s name did we give him so much money again?

[Hootie]

oh, and in case ANYONE forgot...

Succop missed a CHIP SHOT ****ing field goal (anything from 42 in is a chip shot in today's NFL with how advanced these kickers are) to let San Diego backdoor their way into the playoffs...

and then San Diego won a ****ing playoff game

and we still haven't won one of those in 22 ****ing years

so excuse me while I rant about how shitty Ryan Succop is...

oh remember the Tebow playoff year???!?!?!?!? Ryan Succop missed a ****ing field goal week 16 against the Raiders that would have forced OT (or won, I forget at this point)...which would have meant we made the playoffs the following week after we crushed that poser Tebow instead of Tebow...

which resulted in Tebow winning a playoff game...which resulted in Hamas not posting for a year.

so again

****

RYAN

SUCCOP

[KCrockaholic]

I feel like this is why Hootie couldn't have nice things.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

I feel like this is why Hootie couldn't have nice things.

He's literally the only player I currently hate on the Chiefs.

I don't have anyone else. At all. That'll change eventually when the games start...but usually I hate multiple Chiefs players.

Right now?

There's only one. So I get a little hostile towards are overpaid bottom of the barrel kicker who has never done anything clutch in his life.

[kcxiv]

You would think that Succop is Li_ ELL__T according to hootie lol. Funny reading though!

[Hootie]

if anyone can top the kicker who shall go unnamed...

I have a pretty good candidate in mind. Hopefully he's a ****ing Colt when he does it, though.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja

You would think that Succop is Li_ ELL__T according to hootie lol. Funny reading though!

People act like Lin Elliot is the boogie man. News flash Lin Elliot is not the only person to blame that we haven't won a playoff game in 20 years or Super Bowl in 40 years.

Lin Elliot Lin Elliot Lin Elliot Lin Elliot BOOO

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

People act like the kicker that shall go unnamed is the boogie man. News flash the kicker that shall go unnamed is not the only person to blame that we haven't won a playoff game in 20 years or Super Bowl in 40 years.

the kicker that shall go unnamed the kicker that shall go unnamed the kicker that shall go unnamed the kicker that shall go unnamed BOOO

Wtf. Can't say his name?

That is weak sauce


L I N E L L I O t

[Hootie]

I hope you get many neg reps for that.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I hope you get many neg reps for that.

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[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I hope you get many neg reps for that.

All over it Hoot.

[LoneWolf]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I hope you get many neg reps for that.

I'm on it.