Cardinals ****Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread **** - Page 12

**BigRedChief** · 02:36 PM

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014?

This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.
Reached three World Series in the last decade, and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.
Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.
Only one of the last 14 seasons has been a losing one.

VAChief · 11-24-2013, 11:47 AM

Now if only Garcia can comeback halfway decent maybe we can parlay him into something useful.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-24-2013, 12:05 PM

That's not a great deal, but it's not a terrible one either. Peralta has always been a surprisingly good defender, and his bat profiles very well in the 6 or 7 hole.

I can definitely live with that. Saved the draft pick, likely to get another one, and the upgrade between Peralta and Kozma offensively is bigger than going from Freese to Evan Longoria.

whoman69 · 11-24-2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief

Yes, but Drew is going to go higher and another left handed hitting infielder is not what we needed to upgrade SS, especially at Boras prices. It likely is going to be less than what we would have paid Andrus (plus we get to keep the prospects).

He should add more consistent offense than Freese, which means Wong only needs to hit better than Kosma for the infield to come out ahead. It will be interesting to see how the OF rotation shakes out if they decide to keep Adams.

Will signing Peralta cost us a pick?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-24-2013, 12:30 PM

No. Peralta did not receive a QO. And since first round draft picks provide, on average, 4 WAR over the course of their careers, that's an additional savings of $20-28 million over the opportunity cost of signing Drew.

whoman69 · 11-24-2013, 12:34 PM

Have to wonder if Taveras is still in the Cardinals plans. I would think he would at minimum be an insurance policy against Craig being injured again. I wouldn't think Tavaras' ankle problems would carry over to the next year unless he needs surgery.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-24-2013, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

Have to wonder if Taveras is still in the Cardinals plans. I would think he would at minimum be an insurance policy against Craig being injured again. I wouldn't think Tavaras' ankle problems would carry over to the next year unless he needs surgery.

He is, but he's also a very young player who has some maturity issues, hasn't seen a ton of AAA pitching, and is coming off a significant injury, for which he had surgery.

Keeping him in Memphis past the Super Two deadline is not the worst thing in the world. Barring injury, he'll contribute next year.

veist · 11-24-2013, 01:31 PM

In addition to what Hamas mentioned the savings in not losing the draft pick extend to keeping pool money and the extra flexibility that gives them. Lot of factors driving his price up but not a ton more money than I expected him to be getting in this market so I'm okay with it.

Marco Polo · 11-24-2013, 11:29 PM

Cards sign Peralta to a 4 year deal worth $13 mil/yr. Avoid giving up a first round pick and any of our young pitching and should give us a WAR of 3 over four years. Not perfect but I'll take it.

**BigRedChief** · 11-25-2013, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Cards sign Peralta to a 4 year deal worth $13 mil/yr. Avoid giving up a first round pick and any of our young pitching and should give us a WAR of 3 over four years. Not perfect but I'll take it.

Best we could do in this market. Look at where Mo went first in trades and what it would have cost us....

Hardy for one year = Miller
Aryba for one or two years = Miller
Tulo and his huge contract= Miller/Kelly/Craig/Seigriest
Profar/Andrus = Miller/Adams
Drew = Lose 1st round pick

If we use last years $116 payroll number, even with our arb raises and the due increase in our existing contracts we have $35 million left before we reach that number this year.

Peralta doesn't cost us a draft pick or our prized cost controlled talent. We have the cash to overpay at what the market demands. I don't think he can play SS longer than 2 years. At least it gives us 2 years to figure out a long term solution.

Pepe Silvia · 11-25-2013, 08:38 PM

I'm fine with Peralta as well. His bat seemed to improve last season.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 11-25-2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerinMo

I'm fine with Peralta as well. His bat seemed to improve last season.

PED does that.

**BigRedChief** · 11-25-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

He is, but he's also a very young player who has some maturity issues, hasn't seen a ton of AAA pitching, and is coming off a significant injury, for which he had surgery.

Keeping him in Memphis past the Super Two deadline is not the worst thing in the world. Barring injury, he'll contribute next year.

The Burjoles move means Taveras starts in AAA. Mo will save the cost controlled year.

We are the best team in the NL. We don't need to push Taveras.

But, we are going to have to move someone next year. We have a glut of RF in 2015 that are going to need playing time.

Read a chat on STL today with the beat reporter that said Craig told the Cardinals he is more comfortable in RF and would like to play there if at all possible.

DJ's left nut · 11-25-2013, 08:46 PM

Next steps:

1) Add Jeff Baker to the bench to provide a solid platoon partner for Wong/Carpenter/Adams as well as a great bat off the bench against late-inning situational lefties. This name is unfamiliar to most, but look him up. In almost 900 career plate appearances against lefties, he's proven to essentially be Allen Craig with more power. This guy is a perfect solution to our lefty concerns and he's so far under the radar that he should come cheap. I've been banging this drum since August - the guy is a perfect fit. He's played 2b, 3b, 1b and some outfield.

2) Add Michael Morse to the bench to provide all-purpose power to the bench as well as someone capable of playing IF and OF (has played major league innings at 3b, SS, 1b and OF)

3) Trade Jay for a C or 3b prospect.

At that point you have a bench of:

Morse
Baker
Descalso
Robinson
Cruz

That gives you power, speed, defense, positional flexibility and a couple of guys that could even start for prolonged periods of time in the event of injury. If he could swing that, the Cardinals would have an outstanding bench.

Even after the Peralta signing, their team payroll appears to be about $15 million below last season's. That's plenty of money to get Baker and Morse on 2 year deals (that shouldn't hamstring us when the young kids are no longer cost controlled and are looking at their arb years).

Marcellus · 11-25-2013, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

PED does that.

He was not tied to PED's in 2013, it was 2012.

O.city · 11-25-2013, 08:48 PM

I think it's pretty obvious jay is the odd man out.

11-04-2013, 05:32 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3189627 VARSITY	**Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread ** 2011 WS Championship 2012 one win from another WS 2013 two wins from another WS title 2014? This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons. Reached three World Series in the last decade, and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager. Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team. Only one of the last 14 seasons has been a losing one. Last edited by BigRedChief; 01-19-2014 at 02:36 PM..
Posts: 78,968

11-24-2013, 11:47 AM	#166
VAChief Comfortably Numb Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Virginia Casino cash: $5255842	Now if only Garcia can comeback halfway decent maybe we can parlay him into something useful.
Posts: 5,533

11-24-2013, 12:05 PM	#167
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	That's not a great deal, but it's not a terrible one either. Peralta has always been a surprisingly good defender, and his bat profiles very well in the 6 or 7 hole. I can definitely live with that. Saved the draft pick, likely to get another one, and the upgrade between Peralta and Kozma offensively is bigger than going from Freese to Evan Longoria. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

11-24-2013, 12:30 PM	#169
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	No. Peralta did not receive a QO. And since first round draft picks provide, on average, 4 WAR over the course of their careers, that's an additional savings of $20-28 million over the opportunity cost of signing Drew. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

11-24-2013, 01:31 PM	#172
veist Veteran Join Date: Oct 2006 Casino cash: $10004900	In addition to what Hamas mentioned the savings in not losing the draft pick extend to keeping pool money and the extra flexibility that gives them. Lot of factors driving his price up but not a ton more money than I expected him to be getting in this market so I'm okay with it.
Posts: 1,324

11-24-2013, 11:29 PM	#173
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $5828908	Cards sign Peralta to a 4 year deal worth $13 mil/yr. Avoid giving up a first round pick and any of our young pitching and should give us a WAR of 3 over four years. Not perfect but I'll take it.
Posts: 2,506

11-25-2013, 08:38 PM	#175
Pepe Silvia MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $1954664	I'm fine with Peralta as well. His bat seemed to improve last season.
Posts: 16,553

11-25-2013, 08:46 PM	#178
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $3049099	Next steps: 1) Add Jeff Baker to the bench to provide a solid platoon partner for Wong/Carpenter/Adams as well as a great bat off the bench against late-inning situational lefties. This name is unfamiliar to most, but look him up. In almost 900 career plate appearances against lefties, he's proven to essentially be Allen Craig with more power. This guy is a perfect solution to our lefty concerns and he's so far under the radar that he should come cheap. I've been banging this drum since August - the guy is a perfect fit. He's played 2b, 3b, 1b and some outfield. 2) Add Michael Morse to the bench to provide all-purpose power to the bench as well as someone capable of playing IF and OF (has played major league innings at 3b, SS, 1b and OF) 3) Trade Jay for a C or 3b prospect. At that point you have a bench of: Morse Baker Descalso Robinson Cruz That gives you power, speed, defense, positional flexibility and a couple of guys that could even start for prolonged periods of time in the event of injury. If he could swing that, the Cardinals would have an outstanding bench. Even after the Peralta signing, their team payroll appears to be about $15 million below last season's. That's plenty of money to get Baker and Morse on 2 year deals (that shouldn't hamstring us when the young kids are no longer cost controlled and are looking at their arb years). __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,174

11-25-2013, 08:48 PM	#180
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2794064	I think it's pretty obvious jay is the odd man out.
Posts: 81,196