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Old 03-13-2017, 04:20 PM  
NinerDoug NinerDoug is offline
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Spicer: Trump didn't actually mean "wire tapping."

Didn't mean Obama himself either, but rather his administration.

Then why call him a "bad (or sick) guy"? "Sick" seems to imply that Obama himself was listening in when he was doing Melania. (Now there's a scary thought - a desecration - like throwing acid on the Mona Lisa.)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...7ZH?li=BBnb7Kz

White House appears to soften Trump's claim on wiretapping


WASHINGTON — The White House on Monday appeared to soften President Donald Trump's unproven assertion that his predecessor wiretapped his New York skyscraper during the election. The shift came as the Justice Department faced a deadline to provide lawmakers evidence to back up Trump's explosive claim.

More than a week after Trump leveled his allegations in a series of early morning tweets, spokesman Sean Spicer said the president wasn't using the word wiretapping literally, noting that Trump had put the term in quotation marks.

"The president used the word wiretap in quotes to mean broadly surveillance and other activities," Spicer said Monday. He also suggested Trump wasn't accusing former President Barack Obama specifically, but instead referring to the actions of the Obama administration.

Spicer's evolving explanation underscores the bind Trump has put his own White House in. Current and former administration officials have been unable to provide any evidence of the Obama administration wiretapping Trump Tower, yet the president's aides have been reluctant to publicly contradict their boss.

Trump himself has not commented on the matter since his March 4 tweets, in which he said he had "just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory." He also wrote: "Is it legal for a sitting President to be 'wire tapping' a race for president?"

The president's accusations against Obama came amid numerous political questions surrounding his associates' possible ties to Russia. The FBI is investigating Trump associates' contacts with Russia during the election, as are House and Senate intelligence committees.

The White House has asked those committees to also investigate Trump's unverified wiretapping allegations against Obama. The House committee has turned the matter back on the Trump administration, setting a Monday deadline for the Justice Department to provide evidence.

Spicer said he expected the Justice Department to comply with that request. DOJ spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores said Monday that the department was reviewing the request, "but we don't have any further comment at this time."

Other congressional committees are also pushing the administration to clarify Trump's claims.

Sens. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., and Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., asked Acting Deputy Attorney General Dana Boente and FBI Director James Comey to produce the paper trail created when the Justice Department's criminal division secures warrants for wiretaps. The senators, who head the Senate Judiciary Committee's crime and terrorism subcommittee, are seeking warrant applications and court orders, which they said can be scrubbed to protect secret intelligence sources and methods.

Trump's critics have slammed the president for making the wiretapping claim on his Twitter account without evidence. Wiretapping a U.S. citizen would require special permission from a court, and Trump as president would have the ability to declassify that information.

Sen. John McCain, an influential Republican, said Sunday: "I think the president has one of two choices: either retract or to provide the information that the American people deserve."

"If his predecessor violated the law, President Obama violated the law, we have got a serious issue here, to say the least," McCain said.

Comey has privately urged the Justice Department to dispute Trump's claim but has not come forward to do so himself. James Clapper, who was Obama's director of national intelligence, has said that nothing matching Trump's claims had taken place.

White House counselor Kellyanne Conway sidestepped questions about the lack of proof Monday, saying she was "not in the job of having evidence."

"That's what investigations are for," Conway told CNN's "New Day." "The president is pleased that the House and Senate intelligence committees have agreed that this should be part of the investigation that already exists about Russia and the campaign, an investigation that apparently has gone nowhere so far."

In a weekend interview with the Bergen Record, a newspaper in her home state of New Jersey, Conway appeared to point toward the recent WikiLeaks release of nearly 8,000 documents that purportedly reveal secrets about the CIA's tools for breaking into targeted computers, cellphones and even smart TVs.

"What I can say is there are many ways to surveil each other now, unfortunately," including "microwaves that turn into cameras, et cetera," Conway said. "So we know that that is just a fact of modern life."
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:41 AM   #46
Marcellus Marcellus is offline
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I was willing to let some things go but if he is going to accuse people of some pretty heinous crimes he better have some proof or he should just shut the **** up at that point. He doesn't get to do that and not get called out on it. It is reckless and irresponsible. You don't get to come back and say that isn't what I meant.
Where has he backed down on his claim? He hasn't changed his claim.

And seriously do you think the claim is that outlandish? Do you really not believe that something involving surveillance was going on and Obama new about it?

Obama isnt dumb enough to have his name attached to it but there is almost no doubt Trump's claim is accurate.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by BigRichard View Post
I was willing to let some things go but if he is going to accuse people of some pretty heinous crimes he better have some proof or he should just shut the **** up at that point. He doesn't get to do that and not get called out on it. It is reckless and irresponsible. You don't get to come back and say that isn't what I meant.
I'm not going to disagree with the "shut the **** up" advice. That would probably serve him well at times.

But technically, he didn't accuse anyone of a crime. His critics insist on taking him literally when it serves their purposes, but then they want to read their own assumptions into his tweets when necessary to further the criticism. It's not a crime for Obama to "tap Trump's wires" if he did it lawfully.

You always get to come back and say that isn't what I meant when people misunderstand what you said to begin with.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:44 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Where has he backed down on his claim? He hasn't changed his claim.

And seriously do you think the claim is that outlandish? Do you really not believe that something involving surveillance was going on and Obama new about it?

Obama isnt dumb enough to have his name attached to it but there is almost no doubt Trump's claim is accurate.
Then he should be more than happy to provide us with this information he has. It would placate a lot of people. But everytime anyone has been asked about it they tap dance around the question.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:46 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by NinerDoug View Post
"Wiretapping" means listening in on telephone conversations. That's what Trump was saying.


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Old 03-14-2017, 06:55 AM
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:10 AM   #50
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
This is what Trump tweeted:




Why do you think "wires tapped" is in quotes?
He actually tweeted 3 things about this. Maybe you didn't know that. Maybe you are just a lair.

Quote:
How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
Quote:
Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!
Not only is he using the term wire tapping, which according to Merriam-Webster dictionary is a narrowly defined surveillance activity that involves tapping into "a telephone or telegram wire in order to get information", Trump himself gets specific with " Obama gone to tapp my phones".

Let me repeat that since you seem to want people to believe Trump didn't mean listen to phones.

Trump tweeted: " Obama gone to tapp my phones".
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:12 AM   #51
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How many times will Donnie make his supporters look like raging simpletons before they decide enough is enough and it's time to jump ship? Get some dignity ffs.
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:16 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by NinerDoug View Post
"Wiretapping" means listening in on telephone conversations.
50 U.S.C., Chapter 36, Subchapter I § 1801

(f) “Electronic surveillance” means—

(1) the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device of the contents of any wire or radio communication sent by or intended to be received by a particular, known United States person who is in the United States, if the contents are acquired by intentionally targeting that United States person, under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes;

(2) the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device of the contents of any wire communication to or from a person in the United States, without the consent of any party thereto, if such acquisition occurs in the United States, but does not include the acquisition of those communications of computer trespassers that would be permissible under section 2511(2)(i) of title 18;

(3) the intentional acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device of the contents of any radio communication, under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes, and if both the sender and all intended recipients are located within the United States; or

(4) the installation or use of an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device in the United States for monitoring to acquire information, other than from a wire or radio communication, under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes.
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:19 AM   #53
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
50 U.S.C., Chapter 36, Subchapter I § 1801

(f) “Electronic surveillance” means—

(1) the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device of the contents of any wire or radio communication sent by or intended to be received by a particular, known United States person who is in the United States, if the contents are acquired by intentionally targeting that United States person, under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes;

(2) the acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device of the contents of any wire communication to or from a person in the United States, without the consent of any party thereto, if such acquisition occurs in the United States, but does not include the acquisition of those communications of computer trespassers that would be permissible under section 2511(2)(i) of title 18;

(3) the intentional acquisition by an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device of the contents of any radio communication, under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes, and if both the sender and all intended recipients are located within the United States; or

(4) the installation or use of an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device in the United States for monitoring to acquire information, other than from a wire or radio communication, under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes.
That's nice and all but this is what Trump said "Obama gone to tapp my phones". Nor did he ever use the term electronic surveillance.
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:20 AM   #54
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I accept that he may have also meant that Obama was watching him through the WH microwave.
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:26 AM   #55
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That's nice and all but this is what Trump said "Obama gone to tapp my phones". Nor did he ever use the term electronic surveillance.
He said "wire tapped" (in quotes).

We don't know if that means a literal monitoring of a telephone number, some form of electronic surveillance, or a combination of methods, but the FISA provisions clearly allow for forms of electronic surveillance that go far beyond simple wiretaps.

(You might remember this from times when you were presumably outraged that a White House might use FISA against citizens or nationals of the United States, such as under the George W. Bush administration)
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:31 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
He said "wire tapped" (in quotes).

We don't know if that means a literal monitoring of a telephone number, some form of electronic surveillance, or a combination of methods, but the FISA provisions clearly allow for forms of electronic surveillance that go far beyond simple wiretaps.

(You might remember this from times when you were presumably outraged that a White House might use FISA against citizens or nationals of the United States, such as under the George W. Bush administration)
Trump himself says "Obama gone to tapp my phones"



Now tell me how this very specific accusation "tapp my phones" doesn't mean "tapp my phones"

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Old 03-14-2017, 07:40 AM   #57
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tapp

lol
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:43 AM   #58
Lex Luthor Lex Luthor is offline
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
tapp

lol
Hey, you can't expect the President to be able to correctly spell big words like that!
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:52 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Trump himself says "Obama gone to tapp my phones"

Now tell me how this very specific accusation "tapp my phones" doesn't mean "tapp my phones"

If you'd read my post, you'd have seen it was a response to NinerDoug's comment that "Wiretapping means listening in on telephone conversations."

I pointed out in response to that comment that the act in question broadly covers many different forms of electronic surveillance, and that his attempt to box the discussion in around whether or not a physical telephone was "tapped", as it were, is a red herring.

Trump tweeted the accusation with wiretap in quotes. Of course, everyone knows that some people use quote marks to denote a direct quotation, some use them inappropriately to mean "literally", and some use them to mean "figuratively" or "similar to". Trump, not being a stickler for grammar or... traditional sentence structure, could have tweeted what he did under any of those categories. He tweets from the hip without putting much thought into them, probably by design.

The point of it all in this thread is that we have Doug and you, a king and a knight, trying to checkmate Trump over some quote marks when it just isn't there with what you have.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:08 AM   #60
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
If you'd read my post, you'd have seen it was a response to NinerDoug's comment that "Wiretapping means listening in on telephone conversations."

I pointed out in response to that comment that the act in question broadly covers many different forms of electronic surveillance, and that his attempt to box the discussion in around whether or not a physical telephone was "tapped", as it were, is a red herring.

Trump tweeted the accusation with wiretap in quotes. Of course, everyone knows that some people use quote marks to denote a direct quotation, some use them inappropriately to mean "literally", and some use them to mean "figuratively" or "similar to". Trump, not being a stickler for grammar or... traditional sentence structure, could have tweeted what he did under any of those categories. He tweets from the hip without putting much thought into them, probably by design.

The point of it all in this thread is that we have Doug and you, a king and a knight, trying to checkmate Trump over some quote marks when it just isn't there with what you have.
So you will just ignore that Trump himself specified what he meant?

Also, wire tapping has a very strict definition. Place quotes around the word does not change that. Putting quotes around a very strictly defined word does not magically make it less strictly defined.

Stop being stupid to defend stupid.

Trump made very stupid, slandering remark about the former president using very specific "Obama gone to tapp my phones" without releasing any evidence, and you guys badly attempting to carry water for this is just inane.
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