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Old 12-30-2015, 12:48 PM  
Cunning Linguist Cunning Linguist is offline
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:49 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by BWillie View Post
I think it's somewhere between 20-40% that Steven Avery actually committed the murder. 0-5% Cops. 10-20% someone else in the community that knew Steven Avery would be an easy target. The rest and probably most likely scenario is someone else in his family. I think its about completely zero that the idiot kid Brendan Dassey did anything. I really feel bad for that kid. It's why you should NEVER talk to cops, especially when you have a sub 70 IQ.

100% though that the cops planted evidence, of some sort.
My main issue is that the prosecution's case was based on her murder happening either in the bedroom or the garage, yet not one single piece of her DNA in either place. Both of those places had junk piled everywhere so it would have been impossible to scrub/bleach both places and get every single item clean. And if the murder happened how they asserted, there would have been blood everywhere.

My money is on the ex-boyfriend or the brother. Both are sketchy as ****.
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:11 PM   #47
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My whole theory rests on where the officer was when he first called in the plates. He had the plate numbers for her car AND knew what kind of car even before she was reported missing, and way before they found the car in the yard.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:16 PM   #48
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That can't be it. Given the way he was going on about people taking the documentary at face value, he must have looked into all those things that weren't covered and found factual reports to back them up.

Surely he didn't just read something and take it at face value. Surely!
It was testified to at trial by her boss, no one really disputes that she said she was creeped out by him and didn't want to be with him again.

The documentary makers defended leaving out a lot of this other evidence by saying it would take too long to give every detail in the trial, and they felt by just giving the one or two most damning pieces of evidence against Avery, they did their job as documentarians. (I do not agree at all, sure they don't need to explain every small detail, but this is a rather huge part of the story, which they seemed to leave out because it hurts the narrative they were peddling.)

I agree with what others said, the cops in that area are corrupt, it probably didn't happen the way the prosecution theorized, but Avery probably did kill her.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:28 PM   #49
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Some of the evidence given that was not in the series was not presented at trial, so I agree in leaving it out. The jury didn't hear it, so in documenting how the trial progressed it was a fair call.

The DNA on the hood is interesting. It didn't have to come from sweat, one could rub a sock or other piece of unlaundered clothing and transfer DNA. It is interesting to me that they didn't find any DNA traces elsewhere on the vehicle (battery cables, interior, etc.) which tends to make me think this too was planted post "confession".

I also have read of cases where cleaning was done and they could still find evidence or could find evidence of chemicals, neither was presented in this case from what I can find.

I tend to think that perhaps Bobby Dassey was the culprit, explaining the inconsistency in his timeline and story, and that Brendan may have been coached to implicate Stephen then got suckered in himself. They did find bone fragments and evidence in the burn barrel behind the Dassey home.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:42 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats. View Post
Some of the evidence given that was not in the series was not presented at trial, so I agree in leaving it out. The jury didn't hear it, so in documenting how the trial progressed it was a fair call.
Quote:
"I guess I would ask Kratz what he would trade it for. We tried to choose what we thought was Kratz's strongest evidence pointing toward Steven's guilt, the things he talked about at his press conferences, the things that were really damning toward Steven. That's what we put in. The things I've heard listed as things we've left out seem much less convincing of guilt than Teresa's DNA on a bullet or her remains in his backyard."

...

"It was a nearly six-week-long trial, and it would just be impossible for us to include all of the less significant evidence," Ricciardi told The Wrap when asked why some evidence against Avery was excluded from the series.
They weren't saying "well they didn't use it in trial, so we didn't need to include it." They flat-out said it would basically be too hard to fully explain the DA's case that he argued in trial, so they just chose what they thought were the couple strongest bits of evidence to give the DA's side. Obviously they shouldn't be expected to just air 6 dry boring weeks of trial footage OJ-style, but they apparently omitted relevant evidence.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:01 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Lprechaun View Post
My whole theory rests on where the officer was when he first called in the plates. He had the plate numbers for her car AND knew what kind of car even before she was reported missing, and way before they found the car in the yard.
Yeah, it's pretty evident that Coburn and Lenz were the guys on cahoots with each other. Coburn found the car initially, Lenz planted the key. It's pretty clear they put the car and the key there. Less proof to show if they planted the body remnants but who is to say they didn't find the car with the body in it, and then burned it and placed the remanants on Averys burn pit?

I know that sounds like a stretch, but for god sakes the 1985 sample was tampered with. Not only had it been opened, there was a hole in the top that was the same says as a syringe needle
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:15 PM   #52
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The brother who gave all the interviews is a comm director of some sort for the Packers.

My wife has an account in Manitowoc that she has to call on a couple times a year. She passed the account on to a new manager during a reorg after viewing the docuseries.
Yeah, I saw this on Twitter
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:44 PM   #53
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It was testified to at trial by her boss, no one really disputes that she said she was creeped out by him and didn't want to be with him again.
As best I can tell, it seems to be widely disputed. From what I've read, the only source for these claims are statements being made by the ex-prosecutor who had to resign in disgrace.

But I'm not following it nearly as closely as others. So if there's an actual factual report somewhere verifying that claim, I'd be interested in seeing it.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Swanman View Post
My main issue is that the prosecution's case was based on her murder happening either in the bedroom or the garage, yet not one single piece of her DNA in either place. Both of those places had junk piled everywhere so it would have been impossible to scrub/bleach both places and get every single item clean. And if the murder happened how they asserted, there would have been blood everywhere.

My money is on the ex-boyfriend or the brother. Both are sketchy as ****.
I didn't really get that sense at all. The brother seemed fine to me, but they didn't really expand upon them or provide any background about their personality or criminal history. Family members will routinely search for closure, regardless of the circumstances, and I'm sure they thought Steven Avery was 100% guilty. Grief clouds good judgement.
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:42 PM   #55
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Looks like the hood and battery info was actually the cops leading Dassey along too
FASSBENDER: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin' else, you need to tell us what he did, after the car is parked there. It's extremely important. (pause) Before you guys leave that car.
BRENDAN: That he left the gun in the car.
FASSBENDER: That's not what I'm thinkin' about. He did something to that car. He took the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).
BRENDAN: I don't know.
FASSBENDER:OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood at all or anything like that? To do something to that car?
BRENDAN: Yeah.
FASSBENDER: What was that? (pause)
WEIGERT: What did he do, Brendan?
WEIGERT: It's OK, what did he do?
FASSBENDER: What did he do under the hood, if what's what he did? (pause)
BRENDAN: I don't know what he did, but I know he went under.
FASSBENDER: He did raise the hood? (Brendan nods "yes") You remember that?
BRENDAN: Yeah.



As for the *67 phone calls, Dean Strang in an interview said that Avery was pretty protective of his privacy and made it sound like Avery commonly used *67
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:27 PM   #56
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Enough people talked about the show that I had to tune in. I entered thinking Avery is guilty of the murder, but as of Ep 5's start I think the bumpkin got his ass framed by Manitowoc and Calumet county authorities.

Also, pair this series with Gone Girl and I'm really starting to rethink ever trusting another human being again.
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Old 01-05-2016, 12:29 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats. View Post
Looks like the hood and battery info was actually the cops leading Dassey along too
FASSBENDER: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin' else, you need to tell us what he did, after the car is parked there. It's extremely important. (pause) Before you guys leave that car.
BRENDAN: That he left the gun in the car.
FASSBENDER: That's not what I'm thinkin' about. He did something to that car. He took the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).
BRENDAN: I don't know.
FASSBENDER:OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood at all or anything like that? To do something to that car?
BRENDAN: Yeah.
FASSBENDER: What was that? (pause)
WEIGERT: What did he do, Brendan?
WEIGERT: It's OK, what did he do?
FASSBENDER: What did he do under the hood, if what's what he did? (pause)
BRENDAN: I don't know what he did, but I know he went under.
FASSBENDER: He did raise the hood? (Brendan nods "yes") You remember that?
BRENDAN: Yeah.



As for the *67 phone calls, Dean Strang in an interview said that Avery was pretty protective of his privacy and made it sound like Avery commonly used *67
Do you have a link to that transcript?
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:37 PM   #58
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Do you have a link to that transcript?
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:42 PM   #59
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http://www.today.com/popculture/maki...-system-t65161

Speaking on TODAY Tuesday, filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos said a juror from Avery's 2005 murder case in Wisconsin reached out to them amid the frenzy over their hit series to say they believed Avery was framed by law enforcement.

But the juror never spoke up because he or she feared what might happen, the filmmaking duo said.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:44 PM   #60
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http://www.today.com/popculture/maki...-system-t65161

Speaking on TODAY Tuesday, filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos said a juror from Avery's 2005 murder case in Wisconsin reached out to them amid the frenzy over their hit series to say they believed Avery was framed by law enforcement.

But the juror never spoke up because he or she feared what might happen, the filmmaking duo said.
Jurors are ****ing morons.
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