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Old 12-30-2015, 12:48 PM  
Cunning Linguist Cunning Linguist is offline
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Netflix: Making a Murderer

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Old 12-30-2015, 12:57 PM   #2
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Got sucked into it, ended up staying up til 4am. Fell asleep during episode 8, well done documentary. I had never heard of him.
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Old 12-30-2015, 12:58 PM   #3
WhiteWhale WhiteWhale is offline
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Originally Posted by Cunning Linguist View Post
Watch it. Now.
Spoilers ahead...

Afterwards research the actual case, and you might be a bit annoyed at how much evidence the docuseries omitted for the sake of the narrative.

It exposed a lot of corruption in the legal system, but after researching the case I'm pretty certain Avery killed that woman.

They don't mention that Avery's DNA was found on the hood latch of her jeep, where the battery cables were removed.

They don't mention that Avery was obsessed with her and specifically requested her.

They don't mention that he called her 3 times that day.

They don't mention that she asked her bosses to never send her out to Avery's place again because she felt threatened by him as he had a habit of greeting her without all of his clothes on.

They also downplay his violent past prior to the wrongful rape conviction.

Yeah, the system is bad and I'm convinced the police planted evidence. Kachinski should be disbarred for what he did when he was working Dassey's case. I'm still pretty certain Avery killed that woman. Both can be, and likely are, true.

Last edited by WhiteWhale; 12-30-2015 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 12-30-2015, 01:58 PM   #4
KCUnited KCUnited is offline
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I'm assuming spoilers are ok since the entire series has been released. Spoilers below anyway...

Incredible story and there's an obvious narrative to expose the WI justice system. The biggest mystery to me is where this woman actually died. It's hard to believe that a cognizant dummy such as Avery could pull off a potential rape and murder without it being a huge mess of DNA. There's no way he could clean that garage or trailer if she was shot. There was a more ideal place on the property to burn the body. It's also a bit telling that he's never admitted it and won't get a job, which is basically how he survived his first stint, to dedicate himself to the prison law library to work on his flat lined case. Plus, he was looking at a huge payday if he just stayed straight.

But yeah, with his blood in the vehicle there's no way he wasn't getting convicted. And with his defense being a law enforcement frame job, no court was going to touch it.
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:07 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Spoilers ahead...
Can just use spoiler tags.
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:11 PM   #6
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i thought it was ****ing nuts that the vial of blood he submitted in 85 had a needle prick in the lid and the evidence tape was ripped...
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:36 PM   #7
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Haven't watched more than 3-4 episodes, but the timing of the murder vis a vis his payday from the state (and the depos of the principals in his wrongful prosecution case later in November 2005) seems awfully suspicious.
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Haven't watched more than 3-4 episodes, but the timing of the murder vis a vis his payday from the state (and the depos of the principals in his wrongful prosecution case later in November 2005) seems awfully suspicious.
add in the fact that lenk was involved in everything...

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Old 12-30-2015, 06:00 PM   #9
Cunning Linguist Cunning Linguist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Spoilers ahead...
From reddit because Im too lazy to post it myself:

Quote:
Remember that in order for Steven to be guilty, he had to have killed Teresa in the garage (as the prosecution claims), despite their being none of Teresa's blood in the garage other than on the bullet fragment "found" months later. Her bloody body was then placed in the back of her own car (where her blood was actually found), and driven the 20 FEET or so to the fire pit where she was supposedly burned.
THEN, in order for Brendan to be guilty, she had to have been tortured, raped, stabbed and had her throat cut in the trailer, leave absolutely no biological evidence there, then either drag her or drive her in own car (still alive) the 20 feet to the garage and shoot and kill her, then drag or drive her to the fire pit for burning.
This is insane. If you believe the prosecution in these two cases, you not only have to believe that these two guys somehow managed to clean up all that blood and leave no trace (which is frankly practically impossible) in an extremely short window of time, but you also have to believe that for some reason they had to place Teresa in the trunk of her car to transport her a matter of feet to either the garage or fire pit or both... which also makes absolutely no sense.
I'd like to add: The key having SA's DNA, but not teresa's (odd), Colburn mentioning the license plate number in a call two days before the car was "found" on SA's property, and the blood vial that was tampered with that was discredited with an unreliable EDTA test.

All your post has done is provide motive. Outside of that, there are so many inconsistencies in this case that it's nearly impossible to actually say for certain whether SA did it or not. But I can tell you this- we will never find out if someone else committed this crime (exonerating SA). There are no less than 4 other suspects who were not even on the investigators' radar.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:16 PM   #10
WhiteWhale WhiteWhale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunning Linguist View Post
From reddit because Im too lazy to post it myself:



I'd like to add: The key having SA's DNA, but not teresa's (odd), Colburn mentioning the license plate number in a call two days before the car was "found" on SA's property, and the blood vial that was tampered with that was discredited with an unreliable EDTA test.

All your post has done is provide motive. Outside of that, there are so many inconsistencies in this case that it's nearly impossible to actually say for certain whether SA did it or not. But I can tell you this- we will never find out if someone else committed this crime (exonerating SA). There are no less than 4 other suspects who were not even on the investigators' radar.
Did you research the physical evidence that was left off of the show or not?

I agree that they planted evidence. They coerced false confession from Dassey. I agree the murders could not have taken place in the way he was accused. It's impossible. I agree the system is corrupt and this aspect made me very angry when I watched it. I agree the media painted him as guilty before he was even charged. None of this means he is innocent of this murder though. It means we'll never know what actually happened. Even if he commited the murder, it didn't happen the way Dassey claimed. So now that we agree, we can move on to what I was actually talking about.

The fact that Dassey's original story included him helping SA move the car, Where Avery removed the cables, which directly led to the police checking for and finding Avery's DNA on the hood latch demonstrates he opened the hood recently. This wasn't a blood swab. Why do you think the documentary left that out? It's not the only evidence omitted from this series. He also purchased leg and arm shackles 3 weeks prior to her disappearance, though he did claim they were for Jodi.

You are taking a documentary at face value with no critical thought applied. I suggest checking it out. I'm not being condescending, it's just obvious your knowledge of the case comes exclusively from a very biased documentary. Check out the evidence that was omitted from the documentary and put your critical thinking cap on. You may not reach the same conclusion, but learn all of the facts and then come to a conclusion. Otherwise even if you're right, you're right for the wrong reasons. If you ask me, both sides are lying and we'll never know what happened to that poor girl.

Last edited by WhiteWhale; 12-30-2015 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:18 AM   #11
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Where could I read more about how "Avery was obsessed with her" or how "she asked her bosses to never send her out to Avery's place again because she felt threatened by him"?
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:02 AM   #12
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Not sure why the shackles purchase would matter since there's no physical evidence that she was ever bound.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:19 AM   #13
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Where could I read more about how "Avery was obsessed with her" or how "she asked her bosses to never send her out to Avery's place again because she felt threatened by him"?
Reddit......lol. Great source.

The wife and I are 6 episodes in having come into this with little to no knowledge and holy shit is this the most batshit insane thing I've watched. We both see the writing on the wall for where this is going...which is ridiculous and sad because it's blatantly obvious to me what happened and what I've seen so far Avery's defense is DESTROYING the state and their case.

The fix is in though and it's easy to see it...I mean even the judge's rulings are so blatantly skewered so far it's not even funny.

I've also had this thought in my head and I can't shake it and it's clear as day to me...Avery is mere days if not weeks from receiving an insane amount of money but yet he kills a woman, leaves incriminating evidence all over his own property, and does all this while clearly knowing he's being targeted and has been for years? LOL ok....
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:40 PM   #14
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I don't care if he did do it or not. I absolutely believe evidence was planted by the police, not in an attempt to frame him, but to ensure his conviction. Let the man receive a fair trial. That is it! Instead they went the OJ route, but it worked for them since they evidently have a jury pool of inbred idiots and a shit load of corruption.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:22 AM   #15
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I can't believe the jury was initially 7 not guilty, 3 guilty, 2 unsure. Crazy they returned a unanimous verdict.
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