Science History's Toughest Man Identified. - Page 4

**Rain Man** · 10-26-2017, 04:47 PM

He was a Neanderthal who lived 50,000 years ago.

Apparently, he took a nasty clubbing to the face as a youth that would have messed up his vision.

He had a serious limp for reasons unexplained.

Somewhere along the line he lost his right hand and forearm.

He had a spinal condition that limited his mobility.

Oh, and recent analysis showed that he was pretty much completely deaf.

Somehow he managed to live into his 40s, which was about the maximum you could attain in the age of giant cave bears and dire wolves and sabretooth tigers. So hats off to Lefty the Neanderthal, and maybe we should bring him in for a look.

And yeah, the archaeologists claim that he got Neanderthal food stamps, but I don't believe that for a second. I bet he was a Neanderthal who the other Neanderthals feared because you couldn't bring the guy down. He was like the Terminator 2 if the Terminator 2 was made of flint and stone.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/n...ocial-support/

Neanderthals With Disabilities Survived Through Social Support
George Dvorsky
Oct 25, 2017, 3:45pm ⋅ Filed to:
anthropology
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A re-analysis of a 50,000-year-old Neanderthal skull shows that, in addition to enduring multiple injuries and debilitations, this male individual was also profoundly deaf. Yet he lived well into his 40s, which is quite old by Paleolithic standards. It's an achievement that could have only been possible with the help of others, according to new research.

When the remains of this older Neanderthal were discovered at Shanidar Cave in Iraqi Kurdistan in 1957, his many physical injuries and disabilities were immediately apparent. Analysis of his skull showed that he suffered a crushing blow to the head near his eye socket when he was young, likely causing some visual impairment. His right hand and forearm were missing, the result of an amputation. He likely walked with a serious gait, and he suffered from hyperostotic disease (DISH), which is associated with muscular pain and reduced mobility along the spine.

But a new analysis of this specimen, known as Shanidar 1, shows he had another major disability - one not noticed during earlier examinations. New research published in PLOS One reveals that the bony growths found in this Neanderthal's ear canals would have resulted in serious hearing loss. So this Paleolithic-era hunter-gatherer, according to the updated analysis conducted by anthropologists Erik Trinkaus from Washington University in St Louis and Sébastien Villotte of the French National Centre for Scientific Research, was profoundly deaf.

The ear canals of the Neandertal fossil Shanidar 1 show serious deformities that would likely have caused profound deafness. (Image: Erik Trinkaus)

"It would have been essentially impossible for Shanidar 1 to maintain a sufficiently clear canal for adequate sound transmission," noted the authors in the study. "He would therefore have been effectively deaf in his right ear, and he likely had at least partial CHL [conductive hearing loss] in the left ear." Trinkaus and Villotte say it was "a serious sensory deprivation for a Pleistocene hunter-gatherer".

Yet despite his deafness and his other physical setbacks, Shanidar 1 died between 40 and 50 years of age (based on dental analysis). By Paleolithic standards, he was an old man. The only way he could have lived to such a ripe old age is by receiving considerable help from others. "More than his loss of a forearm, bad limp and other injuries, his deafness would have made him easy prey for the ubiquitous carnivores in his environment and dependent on other members of his social group for survival," said Trinkaus in a statement.

His inability to hear would have resulted in reduced communication and diminished social activities requiring coordination, thus making him less effective as a hunter and a forager. It would have been difficult for Shanidar 1 to learn how to fashion tools and use them, and as noted, he would have been more vulnerable to medium and large carnivores (for example, wolves, large cats and bears).

"[A]n individual with advanced CHL would have been highly vulnerable alone in a Pleistocene foraging context," write the researchers in their study. "For Shanidar 1, the CHL was associated with loss of function in other aspects of his biology, all of which would have compounded his need for support, even if some of the individual deficiencies by themselves would not have required such assistance."

Trinkaus and Villotte says it isn't surprising that his fellow Neanderthals were able and willing to provide this level of social support. Profoundly, these extinct humans buried their dead, a funeral act that anthropologists say is indicative of social cohesion, social roles and mutual support. What's more, Neanderthals used pigments and feathers to modify their appearance, which the authors say is "a reflection of social identity manipulation and social cohesion". To say Neanderthals cared for the physically impaired is therefore not a stretch.

Importantly, other examples of prehistoric social support exists in the scientific literature. A study from 2014 revealed a Neanderthal from Spain who suffered from similar hearing loss, and the remains of a five-year-old archaic human with a severe brain deformity who wasn't rejected at birth.

Our conceptions of Neanderthals, as this new study shows, has now moved well beyond the outdated notion that they were brutish proto-humans who cowered in caves. As we're learning, the behavioural differences between Neanderthals and modern humans are, in the words of the researchers, "modest" at best.

saphojunkie · 10-27-2017, 09:37 AM

Chiefsshrink also doesn't realize that Jesus was a middle eastern socialist Jew.

**Rain Man** · 10-27-2017, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Here's my problem with this guy - he artificially boosted his post count. Or at least the British Army's.

Anytime you look at the casualty numbers for WWI you think "goddamn, a whole lot of dudes died..."

But this guy counted as, what, eight casualties? Because technically speaking, if the guy is taken off as wounded he counts as a casualty. So if they just slap a bandaid on it and send him out there again 3 days later and he gets shot again, isn't that double-counting something awful?

I'm starting to wonder if maybe WWI wasn't fought by, like, 3,700 people that just all got shot several dozen times.

And if that's the case, then it's proof that shooting isn't all that painful. Maybe everything about war is a big lie, other than the fact that no war can be carbon-dated before the world's creation 7,000 years ago.

Red Beans · 10-27-2017, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

And if that's the case, then it's proof that shooting isn't all that painful. Maybe everything about war is a big lie, other than the fact that no war can be carbon-dated before the world's creation 7,000 years ago.

War = #fake news

ThaVirus · 10-27-2017, 08:58 PM

Archaic humans fascinate the shit out of me.

Neanderthals had religion. Shit is weird, man..

ThaVirus · 10-27-2017, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

there wasn't enough food for both groups to exist. Lucky for us the smarter group won.

Or maybe just the group that ****ed more

WhiteWhale · 10-27-2017, 10:34 PM

It's only a matter of time around here that any thread with the word 'science' in it ends up with some clown going crockoduck on us.

Xanathol · 10-27-2017, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Get your creationist nonsense out of the lounge, dumbass.

The dumbass Fish never fails to announce his dumbassness... I've got degrees in multiple engineering diciplines, physics & math, walked away from NASA, have relatives doing work in quatum, but it is always the high school drop outs like Fish that think they 'know better'... **** me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockChalk

I'm amazed by the large amount of people in this world who believe in creationism, in spite of centuries of science proving otherwise.

Are you really that stupid or just full of shit? Name anything in the Bible proven incorrect by science - you can't. Can name a hell of a lot that was proven accurate, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlintHillsChiefs

God damn it. Keep science separate from religious beliefs and stop trying to shoehorn science to fit the timeline of a propaganda book written by humans in 800BC.

You can ****ing count, can't you? What don't you understand about 5,000 years being the limit of C14 dating, as acknowledged by the scientific community, and, oh I dunno... math? Next time, keep quiet and people will only think you are stupid.

Fish · 10-27-2017, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanathol

The dumbass Fish never fails to announce his dumbassness... I've got degrees in multiple engineering diciplines, physics & math, walked away from NASA, have relatives doing work in quatum, but it is always the high school drop outs like Fish that think they 'know better'... **** me.

Are you really that stupid or just full of shit? Name anything in the Bible proven incorrect by science - you can't. Can name a hell of a lot that was proven accurate, however.

You can ****ing count, can't you? What don't you understand about 5,000 years being the limit of C14 dating, as acknowledged by the scientific community, and, oh I dunno... math? Next time, keep quiet and people will only think you are stupid.

... you clown. Get that shit out of here....

Relatives doing work in quantum.

**Rain Man** · 10-28-2017, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Archaic humans fascinate the shit out of me.

Neanderthals had religion. Shit is weird, man..

I really know nothing about Neanderthals, so maybe there's facts about this that are known. But I wonder if they were really less developed than Homo Sapiens or if they were just different. Maybe it was just a coin flip about which group won or lost.

Now I'm reading. This article says that there's no evidence that Neanderthals weren't as smart:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0430133054.htm

But this article says that there is evidence:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...rthal-1885827/

It would be really cool to go back in time and see how the two groups interacted.

rico · 10-28-2017, 02:09 AM

So people with Neanderthal DNA...it always makes me wonder if their ancestors' sex was consensual or rape...? And I wonder which species was doing the raping...? Were humans more inclined to rape Neanderthals or were humans raped by Neanderthals? That would kind of suck if that sort of thing existed today... going out to check the mail and constantly having to look over your shoulder due to fear of being raped by a Neanderthal... And if it were the other way around, I would probably get pissed and speak up to whoever was doing the Neanderthal raping... I would really give them an ear-full. I'd be all like, "dude, come on...I am disappointed in you!!! Why the hell are you going out there raping Neanderthals?!?! Unacceptable!!!"

Coochie liquor · 10-28-2017, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carcosa

I saw Jesus made a cloud,

Did he look like Tebow?

thegame214 · 10-28-2017, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanathol

The dumbass Fish never fails to announce his dumbassness... I've got degrees in multiple engineering diciplines, physics & math, walked away from NASA, have relatives doing work in quatum, but it is always the high school drop outs like Fish that think they 'know better'... **** me.

Are you really that stupid or just full of shit? Name anything in the Bible proven incorrect by science - you can't. Can name a hell of a lot that was proven accurate, however.

You can ****ing count, can't you? What don't you understand about 5,000 years being the limit of C14 dating, as acknowledged by the scientific community, and, oh I dunno... math? Next time, keep quiet and people will only think you are stupid.

Thank god you "stepped away from NASA", which has nothing to do with the thread lol

The same reason you disprove all other gods is the same reason people disprove yours.

You disprove carbon dating but clings onto an interpretation of a book lol

There were 1000s of gods like Mithra long before your god who was described variously as 'the Way,' 'the Truth,' 'the Light,' 'the Life,' 'the Word,' 'the Son of God,' 'the Good Shepherd.' The Christian litany to Jesus could easily be an allegorical litany to the sun-god. Mithras is often represented as carrying a lamb on his shoulders, just as Jesus is. Midnight services were found in both religions. The virgin mother...was easily merged with the virgin mother Mary. Petra, the sacred rock of Mithraism, became Peter, the foundation of the Christian Church.

No I didn't step away from NASA, but I did stay at a holiday inn last night.

GloucesterChief · 10-28-2017, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I really know nothing about Neanderthals, so maybe there's facts about this that are known. But I wonder if they were really less developed than Homo Sapiens or if they were just different. Maybe it was just a coin flip about which group won or lost.

Now I'm reading. This article says that there's no evidence that Neanderthals weren't as smart:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0430133054.htm

But this article says that there is evidence:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...rthal-1885827/

It would be really cool to go back in time and see how the two groups interacted.

From the archaeological evidence it seems that Neanderthals were not as creative as modern humans as their tool kit didn't evolve until contact with modern humans.

As for looks, you probably couldn't tell the difference. Neanderthals looked like hairier humans with bigger noses. Indo-Europeans have 1-3% Neanderthal dna and that is way they have more body hair than Asians or Africans. It is a adaptation carried over from the Ice Age.

**BigRedChief** · 10-28-2017, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rico

So people with Neanderthal DNA...it always makes me wonder if their ancestors' sex was consensual or rape...? And I wonder which species was doing the raping...? Were humans more inclined to rape Neanderthals or were humans raped by Neanderthals? That would kind of suck if that sort of thing existed today... going out to check the mail and constantly having to look over your shoulder due to fear of being raped by a Neanderthal... And if it were the other way around, I would probably get pissed and speak up to whoever was doing the Neanderthal raping... I would really give them an ear-full. I'd be all like, "dude, come on...I am disappointed in you!!! Why the hell are you going out there raping Neanderthals?!?! Unacceptable!!!"

To the victor goes the spoils of war? What was spoils of war back then? Seems that pussy would have been a big reward.

**BigRedChief** · 10-28-2017, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanathol

The dumbass Fish never fails to announce his dumbassness... I've got degrees in multiple engineering diciplines, physics & math, walked away from NASA, have relatives doing work in quatum, but it is always the high school drop outs like Fish that think they 'know better'... **** me.

Are you really that stupid or just full of shit? Name anything in the Bible proven incorrect by science - you can't. Can name a hell of a lot that was proven accurate, however.

You can ****ing count, can't you? What don't you understand about 5,000 years being the limit of C14 dating, as acknowledged by the scientific community, and, oh I dunno... math? Next time, keep quiet and people will only think you are stupid.

10-26-2017, 04:47 PM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3348491 VARSITY	History's Toughest Man Identified. He was a Neanderthal who lived 50,000 years ago. Apparently, he took a nasty clubbing to the face as a youth that would have messed up his vision. He had a serious limp for reasons unexplained. Somewhere along the line he lost his right hand and forearm. He had a spinal condition that limited his mobility. Oh, and recent analysis showed that he was pretty much completely deaf. Somehow he managed to live into his 40s, which was about the maximum you could attain in the age of giant cave bears and dire wolves and sabretooth tigers. So hats off to Lefty the Neanderthal, and maybe we should bring him in for a look. And yeah, the archaeologists claim that he got Neanderthal food stamps, but I don't believe that for a second. I bet he was a Neanderthal who the other Neanderthals feared because you couldn't bring the guy down. He was like the Terminator 2 if the Terminator 2 was made of flint and stone. https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/n...ocial-support/ Neanderthals With Disabilities Survived Through Social Support George Dvorsky Oct 25, 2017, 3:45pm ⋅ Filed to: anthropology Share A re-analysis of a 50,000-year-old Neanderthal skull shows that, in addition to enduring multiple injuries and debilitations, this male individual was also profoundly deaf. Yet he lived well into his 40s, which is quite old by Paleolithic standards. It's an achievement that could have only been possible with the help of others, according to new research. When the remains of this older Neanderthal were discovered at Shanidar Cave in Iraqi Kurdistan in 1957, his many physical injuries and disabilities were immediately apparent. Analysis of his skull showed that he suffered a crushing blow to the head near his eye socket when he was young, likely causing some visual impairment. His right hand and forearm were missing, the result of an amputation. He likely walked with a serious gait, and he suffered from hyperostotic disease (DISH), which is associated with muscular pain and reduced mobility along the spine. But a new analysis of this specimen, known as Shanidar 1, shows he had another major disability - one not noticed during earlier examinations. New research published in PLOS One reveals that the bony growths found in this Neanderthal's ear canals would have resulted in serious hearing loss. So this Paleolithic-era hunter-gatherer, according to the updated analysis conducted by anthropologists Erik Trinkaus from Washington University in St Louis and Sébastien Villotte of the French National Centre for Scientific Research, was profoundly deaf. The ear canals of the Neandertal fossil Shanidar 1 show serious deformities that would likely have caused profound deafness. (Image: Erik Trinkaus) "It would have been essentially impossible for Shanidar 1 to maintain a sufficiently clear canal for adequate sound transmission," noted the authors in the study. "He would therefore have been effectively deaf in his right ear, and he likely had at least partial CHL [conductive hearing loss] in the left ear." Trinkaus and Villotte say it was "a serious sensory deprivation for a Pleistocene hunter-gatherer". Yet despite his deafness and his other physical setbacks, Shanidar 1 died between 40 and 50 years of age (based on dental analysis). By Paleolithic standards, he was an old man. The only way he could have lived to such a ripe old age is by receiving considerable help from others. "More than his loss of a forearm, bad limp and other injuries, his deafness would have made him easy prey for the ubiquitous carnivores in his environment and dependent on other members of his social group for survival," said Trinkaus in a statement. His inability to hear would have resulted in reduced communication and diminished social activities requiring coordination, thus making him less effective as a hunter and a forager. It would have been difficult for Shanidar 1 to learn how to fashion tools and use them, and as noted, he would have been more vulnerable to medium and large carnivores (for example, wolves, large cats and bears). "[A]n individual with advanced CHL would have been highly vulnerable alone in a Pleistocene foraging context," write the researchers in their study. "For Shanidar 1, the CHL was associated with loss of function in other aspects of his biology, all of which would have compounded his need for support, even if some of the individual deficiencies by themselves would not have required such assistance." Trinkaus and Villotte says it isn't surprising that his fellow Neanderthals were able and willing to provide this level of social support. Profoundly, these extinct humans buried their dead, a funeral act that anthropologists say is indicative of social cohesion, social roles and mutual support. What's more, Neanderthals used pigments and feathers to modify their appearance, which the authors say is "a reflection of social identity manipulation and social cohesion". To say Neanderthals cared for the physically impaired is therefore not a stretch. Importantly, other examples of prehistoric social support exists in the scientific literature. A study from 2014 revealed a Neanderthal from Spain who suffered from similar hearing loss, and the remains of a five-year-old archaic human with a severe brain deformity who wasn't rejected at birth. Our conceptions of Neanderthals, as this new study shows, has now moved well beyond the outdated notion that they were brutish proto-humans who cowered in caves. As we're learning, the behavioural differences between Neanderthals and modern humans are, in the words of the researchers, "modest" at best.
Posts: 141,255

10-27-2017, 09:37 AM	#46
saphojunkie MVP Join Date: Aug 2011 Casino cash: $4776250	Chiefsshrink also doesn't realize that Jesus was a middle eastern socialist Jew.
Posts: 12,540

10-27-2017, 08:58 PM	#49
ThaVirus Settle this once and forever Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $2112369	Archaic humans fascinate the shit out of me. Neanderthals had religion. Shit is weird, man..
Posts: 44,232

10-27-2017, 10:34 PM	#51
WhiteWhale Bring it on Ahab! Join Date: May 2011 Location: Doo-Dah Casino cash: $10015152	It's only a matter of time around here that any thread with the word 'science' in it ends up with some clown going crockoduck on us.
Posts: 14,861