Game of Thrones Thread

[BigRedChief]

Feel free to discuss any future speculation, theories. Anything from the books is fair game to post. Everything that has been broadcast on TV or from HBO. No spoilers needed.

1. If you watched or know the events that will take place in a unaired episode that has not been broadcast on HBO, you must put all the information and comments in a spoiler tag.
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Any person unable to follow the spoiler rules will be banned from this thread. 14 days for first offense. Perm banned from the thread for a 2nd offense.

[JakeLV]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Awesome, love the discussion.

Jaime and Brienne to see Lady Stoneheart. My two biggest complaints about ADWD are that we only got one chapter dealing with Jaime and Brienne, and we got no chapters dealing with Sam at the Citadel (and what's up with Marwyn who left the Citadel to go see Dany?). But in the one Jaime chapter, we see Brienne leading Jamie off to see LSH. I too wonder how that will play out, I sure hope LSH does not kill Jaime, that will piss me off.

Davos to get Rickon from Skagos. Yes, as others posted, most people think Rickon is in Skagos because of Davos' reference to cannibals when he sees the location, and it is not too far from there off the coast of Westeros, and it's a place where a wildling girl might feel comfortable taking Rickon.

The Winterfell killings are subject to a few theories. It seems clear most of the killings were by Mance/Abel's spearwives. But Little Walder Frey's death at the end is different. The spearwife denies it was them to Theon in a way that makes it clear she is admitting to the others ("not one of ours"), so why would she lie about the one? Likely she didn't lie and it was someone else who did the last killing.

But who? Some think it was the mystery guy Theon sees and talks to out in the yard who recognizes Theon. We know that guy wasn't Mance/Abel as GRRM makes a point to have Theon hear Abel singing right when he sees the mystery guy. Blackfish maybe? BenJen Stark (there must be a Stark in Winterfell)? There are many theories on who that guy is and what motives he might have to kill a Frey. But I don't think it was the mystery guy.

My personal favorite theory is that the killer was none other than Big Walder Frey (the older but smaller and slightly less mean one) that killed Little Walder Frey (the bigger, dumber, meaner one). If you read the part where the body is brought in, Big Walder has blood splattered on him and nobody else has blood on them at all because the blood was frozen when he was found. Even if he found him and picked him up, you only get blood "splatter" by being there when the cutting is done.

I don't know about the Bran visions, I'd have to re-read them.

I agree that Dany's position in the books feels more like one of strength that the Dothraki would follow. On the show, she's going to have to show that strength somehow to earn their following. I have read some rumors on how that might happen, but not going to say anything because it was honestly more spoilers than I wanted to know (would be awesome if true though).

Here's a question for you though, what'd you think of the infamous Pink Letter from Ramsey to Jon Snow? That one has me perplexed, and I had a theory on it, but then Stannis was killed on the show, which if it happens in the books, would ruin my theory. So now I'm not sure what to think. Some people don't think Ramsey even wrote it, but it sure sounds like Ramsey to me (though no body part was included with it, so maybe not?).


...

Mance is the only one that truly makes sense to me regarding the pink letter. I've watched quite a bit of theory crafting videos for it, and Asha and Stannis are not in a position where that would make sense geographically. Ramsey writes his letters in blood, so I don't think it was Ramsey either. Based on the wording, Mance makes the most sense.

If it IS Mance, you gotta wonder why and you gotta wonder what in the crypts on Winterfell would possess him to go on a suicide mission.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Hawk

The Winterfell killings are subject to a few theories. It seems clear most of the killings were by Mance/Abel's spearwives. But Little Walder Frey's death at the end is different. The spearwife denies it was them to Theon in a way that makes it clear she is admitting to the others ("not one of ours"), so why would she lie about the one? Likely she didn't lie and it was someone else who did the last killing.

But who? Some think it was the mystery guy Theon sees and talks to out in the yard who recognizes Theon. We know that guy wasn't Mance/Abel as GRRM makes a point to have Theon hear Abel singing right when he sees the mystery guy. Blackfish maybe? BenJen Stark (there must be a Stark in Winterfell)? There are many theories on who that guy is and what motives he might have to kill a Frey. But I don't think it was the mystery guy.

I remember the mystery guy and agree that it wasn't him- I feel that would be too obvious. That really makes me wonder who he is though. It seemed a pretty significant meeting. I'm sure we'll find out at some point.

Here's a question for you though, what'd you think of the infamous Pink Letter from Ramsey to Jon Snow? That one has me perplexed, and I had a theory on it, but then Stannis was killed on the show, which if it happens in the books, would ruin my theory. So now I'm not sure what to think. Some people don't think Ramsey even wrote it, but it sure sounds like Ramsey to me (though no body part was included with it, so maybe not?).

Hmmm, I never thought about that one; I just took it at face value and assumed it was Ramsay. I'm really no good with theories myself unless they're so obvious it's impossible to miss. I read a fan theory the other day that Patchface is a warlock or some shit. Apparently some of his songs, which I usually skip over through reads, have predicted significant deaths and other events.

What's your theory, though? I love reading them.

By the way, here is the transcript of Bran's weirdwood visions:

... but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the gods-wood looking down upon his father. Lord Eddard seemed much younger this time. His hair was brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. "... let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them," he prayed, "and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive ..."

The rest of his father's words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood. Eddard Stark dissolved, like mist in a morning sun.

Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her.

Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor.

A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn.

And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand. "No," said Bran, "no, don' t, " but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth ... but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

[Sorter]

There's an interesting theory that

Spoiler!

Euron "Crow's Eye" was Bloodraven's first protege that turned sour.

[Sorter]

Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

Lyanna and Ned.

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her.

One of the She-Wolves

Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor.

Old Nan and Ser Duncan

A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn.

No idea.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand. "No," said Bran, "no, don' t, " but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth ... but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

Think this is the same She-Wolf from earlier.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Hmmm, I never thought about that one; I just took it at face value and assumed it was Ramsay. I'm really no good with theories myself unless they're so obvious it's impossible to miss. I read a fan theory the other day that Patchface is a warlock or some shit. Apparently some of his songs, which I usually skip over through reads, have predicted significant deaths and other events.

What's your theory, though? I love reading them.

By the way, here is the transcript of Bran's weirdwood visions:

I don't know what to make of Bran's visions other than the one that seems to obviously be Ned praying that Jon and Ned's sons would grow up as brothers and that Catelyn would forgive Ned for bringing home a "bastard" and would forgive Jon for being one.

My theory on the pink letter is based in part on the Theon chapter that was released after ADWD. If you haven't read that chapter, it makes less sense. (BTW, there are about 6 or so chapters released from Winds of Winter. If you're so inclined, they are good reads and don't contain too many spoilers, especially since you watch the show. The best ones are the Theon one and the one called "Mercy" which is an Arya one.

The Theon one is interesting and even though it comes after the chapter where Jon gets the pink letter, it takes place before the battle between Stannis' forces and the Winterfell forces (consisting of Manderlys and Freys) sent out after him once Theon escaped with fake Arya. So my theory is that Stannis wins because the Manderlys turn and help kill the Freys, but Stannis uses Manderly to fake his death by having Manderly go back to Winterfell and tell Ramsay they defeated and killed Stannis but didn't find Theon or fake Arya. That causes Ramsay to send the letter to Jon assuming Theon and fake Arya will head north to the wall, but the letter is not true in that Stannis was not defeated. Of course since I came up with this theory, they defeated and killed Stannis on the show (seemingly), so now it seems unlikely my theory is correct unless the book and show are going to treat Stannis very differently.

[The Franchise]

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

So do you think Bran is gaining stremf from,

Spoiler!

Jojen burgers?

[RINGLEADER]

After six years, as someone who never read the books, I can finally participate in GoT threads without fearing someone spoiling it all.

[The Franchise]

[Sorter]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

After six years, as someone who never read the books, I can finally participate in GoT threads without fearing someone spoiling it all.

You are so wrong, my sweet summer child.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

After six years, as someone who never read the books, I can finally participate in GoT threads without fearing someone spoiling it all.

Dude their are major spoilers in here. Stuff that should have been in the TV show but were supposedly left out but its now are rumored to be back in with a twist for TV. Its a "red wedding" level of WTF shocker. You really want this reveal to happen as you watch it on TV.

[listopencil]

Well...I grabbed a set of most of the books and read through the first one recently. Then I get a text a few days before Xmas from my older son asking if I ever watched the show. I told him no, I was waiting to read the books, because the books are always better. You just can't fit as much stuff into a visual medium. And you won't get the same kind of internal dialogues or narration. Also, it will never look the same because the camera's point of view isn't going to match what your imaginary one was while you read the thing (dreaming up scenes that can't possibly be recreated by someone who doesn't live in your head). So he brings over DVD set of the first season for me as a gift. I watched it. Then I binge watched every episode available over the next few days. Which isn't bad really. Now I have something to read while waiting for the next season and I'm glad that the show doesn't match the books.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by Sorter

You are so wrong, my sweet summer child.

nice

[DaneMcCloud]

I saw Lena Heady at The Grove on Christmas Eve. She was absolutely gorgeous and I don't say that about many Hollywooders.

Her hair was nearly shoulder length, dyed red with highlights. She had her baby and current boyfriend with her.

Stunning, guys.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I saw Lena Heady at The Grove on Christmas Eve. She was absolutely gorgeous and I don't say that about many Hollywooders.

Her hair was nearly shoulder length, dyed red with highlights. She had her baby and current boyfriend with her.

Stunning, guys.

In a show with a lot of really good performances she stood out. She actually made me see her as ugly because she portrayed a person who was so ugly on the inside so well. It was a shock to me to see her in normal pics, smiling and being normal, and to see how pretty she really is.