Renovating a Kitchen. Looking for Advice.

[Buehler445]

Mrs. Buehler445 and I are buying a different house. It is really what we want in terms of size, layout, neighborhood, etc. The only drawback is there are no upper cabinets in the kitchen...WTF? Anyway, we made the decision to man up and put in a kitchen that we want.

Since I'm a home renovation n00b, I'd appreciate any advice, tips, or experiences the CP braintrust can provide.

In doing this, we are going to have to come up with,

Cabinets (obviously)

Countertop

Backsplash

Moving the sink I hate plumbing. But it shouldn't be too bad, the plumbing is in an unfinished portion of the basement

Flooring which I'm pretty comfortable with.

Most of the work will be hired, partially because I'm a noob. Partially because I'm busy as ****.

TIA

EDIT: Already have the antifreeze tap on order.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Things I like about my kitchen remodel:


We built roll-out shelves in the pantry. Super cool and adds to storage capacity.

I would love to have those and will sooner than later. They aren't cheap though.

We built a really low shelf in the pantry specifically for flat stuff like plastic wrap and aluminum foil. It takes very little room and stores stuff that's hard to find a place for.

And as for "not digging around" — I hate that too.

We put in tons of lighting. You can never have too much lighting. Undercounter, ceiling, a spotlight over the sink, etc.

That sounds cool.

We built a decorative top row above the cabinets. Glass doors and can lighting, and we put decorative stuff up there that we seldom need - e.g., soup tureens, vases, teapots, etc.

Forgive me for this, but you guys don't cook right?
I would never have room for decorative stuff like that—though a soup tureen isn't an oft-used item.

Things I don't like about my kitchen remodel:


Our dishwasher is in the wrong place. It's on the inside of a corner, and you can't put stuff away in a couple of cabinets without a two-phase process.

Our refrigerator opens into the pull-out shelves in our pantry. We accidentally scratched the front of the fridge because we opened it into the little metal rail when a pantry shelf was open.

There are some layout issues that are kind of annoying, but our kitchen is small so maybe there were inevitable.
.

If you don't cook often, I think it's harder to predict layout issues like this. I didn't cook a lot when I bought this place and my daughter was younger because I worked too much. Now, I am convinced a galley kitchen is the best, most efficient and easiest kitchen to prepare and cook food.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

That sounds cool.

Forgive me for this, but you guys don't cook right?
I would never have room for decorative stuff like that—though a soup tureen isn't an oft-used item.

We've had spells of cooking a lot in the past, but right now we don't cook much at all. Shockingly little, to be honest. Our schedules just don't work out to be at home together in time for dinner. So there's a whole lot of grazing in our house.

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

If you don't cook often, I think it's harder to predict layout issues like this. I didn't cook a lot when I bought this place and my daughter was younger because I worked too much. Now, I am convinced a galley kitchen is the best, most efficient and easiest kitchen to prepare and cook food.

Yeah, plus our kitchen is pretty small compared to newer homes. The house is 109 years old, and people didn't spend any time in kitchens back then. The funny thing is that our kitchen was originally two rooms - a kitchen and a butler's pantry. Even combined now, it's still small.

We wanted to knock out the back of the house and expand it when we did the remodel, but it just didn't make sense. It would've cost a fortune and it would've messed up the feng shui and proportions of the back yard pretty bad.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by TinyEvel

Your OP is too vague. What are you looking for advice on? Materials? References for stores/contractors/designers?

I'm really looking for what I don't know to ask about. I thought formica was a done deal, but this thread opened my eyes to some different lines of thinking out there.

As far as what I'm weak on, since I've got my head buried in the dust of hickabilly nowhereville, knowing what options are out there is a big deal for me.

Also, what types of cabinets should I look for, and what do I look for with quality? I'm a shit carpenter and know nothing about build and finish quality. I really don't want to drop a pile of cash and get crap out. Are the lines at home depot good enough? Do I need to be looking somewhere else? I don't know much there.

Other than that, just what works and doesn't and what to avoid.

Originally Posted by TinyEvel

Are you looking to make something you like? Or, considering resale value, too?

Just what we like. I don't have any plans to move at the moment.

Originally Posted by TinyEvel

I think you'd be best to post some pics of kitchen styles you like and then ask "How do Iget this look for the least cost"

Is that what you want? Everyone's taste is different, so that's what you are going to get with a general ask.

I think the basics are: colors and shapes.

SHAPES: are you going to make the new kitchen in that same footprint/layout as the existing? Are you going to keep the existing base cabinets and just add wall cabinets? If so, are you open to painting/resurfacing the existing cabinets? or want to keep them as-is (in which case you will just be finding matching wall cabinets and your upgrade will be in the countertops/backsplash.)

COLORS: Will you be painting the walls? Will you be keeping the colors of the cabinets the same? Do you want mono-chromatic look or bright colors? Cabinets: wood or white or gray or what?

(I just went through all this and it is painful and it cost more than I had expected but we opened a can of worms)

I'll see if I can grab some pictures. It is currently a galley kitchen and I'd like to expand the footprint of it. There is room, but we'll have to see where the bids end up.

The existing cabinets are probably going to go.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

I am not talking about the wall, but that piece of counter that comes up about 4" onto the wall. That's no longer in style.

That went out in the 70's, man. Functionally, I like the idea of it, in being easiest to clean and seal, but we are going to do some sort of tile back there.

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

If you're not sure of what you like for a "look"—hire a designer—one that will work with you keeping your preferences and budget in mind. I think the extra money pays off.

I live in bum**** nowhereville. I don't think there is a designer in the area, but I'll check. You may be onto something there.

[Rain Man]

Also, keep your options open. If a kitchen costs $50,000, you could just turn your kitchen into a TV room and the savings would pay for 5,000 meals at your local Dairy Queen, or 1,700 pizza deliveries. Just because my wife nixed this idea at my house doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

No they're not. I clarified what I meant by one.




Consider the source? Ahem, I am a designer though' not an interior one but I've worked with a LOT of them particularly when having accounts like real estate developers like Arthur Rutenberg homes , hotel/resort interior designers and architects, plus some of the trade shows I have to visit are big Home Shows with the very latest in kitchen design and technology. The little splash from the bottom of the counter that extends up about 4-5 inches are now gone. It's old. Out-of-date. It dates a kitchen.

I think the source to be considered is you. I could design your arse off, kiddo. Even if its a kitchen.

You're not talking about a backsplash, you're talking about typical Formica countertops. We've covered that.

Yes, you can have it done in stone or engineered some, but that wouldn't be "countertops" and would certainly cost extra.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Oxford

Are you planning to make this your forever home? What ever you do it will probably not increase the resale value of your home that much (unless its a total wreck right now) so it has to fit what you want. Make a list of the things that you must have (pantry and storage for small appliances are high on my list) and start there, don't be afraid to have a wall moved if you need to get the floor space you need. If you get squeezed on the budget then countertops can be a place to skimp. You can always come back later and put in the granite/solid surface when the money gets better. Same thing for appliances, maybe you can reuse and spread the cost. Shop around the new houses and look for cabinets you like, customs may be the better route (especially if business is weak for the cabinet makers). Another place to look for deals is HomeDepot/Lowes/Sears etc in the repaired appliance section.

Planning on it at the moment. I have a long time until I die (hopefully), so we'll see, but it is set up as a house we can retire in. I need to get some ballpark numbers together to figure out just how far we can go.

I'm keeping the appliances I have. I have a good chunk of money tied up in them and they are what I Mrs. Buehler445 wants.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I did a major kitchen remodel about 8 years ago, but I can't parse out the cost of the kitchen because it was part of a larger project. It kind of annoys me that I don't know the cost of the kitchen.

We had plans to do a nice set of french doors going out from the kitchen to our back deck. it would have been really cool. There was an existing door with a window right next to it, so it would have been easy to do structurally. However, the contractor discovered a water pipe running between the door and the window, and said that it would be expensive to move it due to some layout issues. (It went up to the second floor.) We didn't do it and kept the window. Several years later, we figured out that the water pipe was an orphaned pipe that's not even used. Sigh.

It's never too late...

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Things I like about my kitchen remodel:


We built roll-out shelves in the pantry. Super cool and adds to storage capacity.

We built a really low shelf in the pantry specifically for flat stuff like plastic wrap and aluminum foil. It takes very little room and stores stuff that's hard to find a place for.

We built lazy susans into the corner cabinets so we don't have to dig around to find the pans and stuff that we don't use often.

We built a couple of very narrow cabinets for cutting boards and cookie sheets. Works great.

We put in tons of lighting. You can never have too much lighting. Undercounter, ceiling, a spotlight over the sink, etc.

We built a decorative top row above the cabinets. Glass doors and can lighting, and we put decorative stuff up there that we seldom need - e.g., soup tureens, vases, teapots, etc.

We bought a very decorative granite that we really like, but that's a matter of taste.

We bought mid-range appliances and were happy that we didn't pay more for the premium models.

We built a cabinet specifically for the trash can.

Things I don't like about my kitchen remodel:


We should've put heating under the floor tiles. Someone on CP does that, and you should ask.

Our dishwasher is in the wrong place. It's on the inside of a corner, and you can't put stuff away in a couple of cabinets without a two-phase process.

Our refrigerator opens into the pull-out shelves in our pantry. We accidentally scratched the front of the fridge because we opened it into the little metal rail when a pantry shelf was open.

There are some layout issues that are kind of annoying, but our kitchen is small so maybe there were inevitable.

We bought a fancy faucet that has the built-in sprayer and built-in soap dispenser. The sprayer is great, but the soap dispenser was a total bust. Never worked right, the faucet company can't seem to fix it, and even if it worked it would've required crawling underneath the sink to fill it up.

I've seen the rollout things. I'll definitely look into it, but I think if I have to cut something, that is right up there.

Lazy susan's rule. Non-negotiable.

I'm with you on the lighting. That is going to happen either way. I'm a freak. I think I'm the only guy around that likes white light. I freaking hate yellow light, and everybody else puts it in. I can't see as well, and it makes everything look dingy. Good lighting, especially undercounter lighting is a must.

Floor heat isn't hard, but I don't think I'm going to look at it. I don't live on a mountain .

I'll keep that other stuff in mind. Thanks for the input.

[SLAG]

For Cabinets delivered to your door may I recommend Cabinet Giant.
They have been nothing short of amazing and I am very impressed with their product and ease of use to get new cabinets up and in.

http://www.cabinetgiant.com/

[Oxford]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Planning on it at the moment. I have a long time until I die (hopefully), so we'll see, but it is set up as a house we can retire in. I need to get some ballpark numbers together to figure out just how far we can go.

I'm keeping the appliances I have. I have a good chunk of money tied up in them and they are what I Mrs. Buehler445 wants.

When we built our house we had a large island installed. My wife is 5'11" and the island is 6" taller than stock so its easier for her to work with bread dough. The cabinet guy had scraps of maple, glued them together, planed it and installed it as our 4 foot square butcher block top. That is the kind of stuff that makes it usable and liveable. My wife added our double oven and gas cooktop about 5 years after we moved in. Couldn't get the slide in range/oven to cook like she wanted it to. We had to have a gas line run to accommodate the additional load so keep that in mind.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Oxford

When we built our house we had a large island installed. My wife is 5'11" and the island is 6" taller than stock so its easier for her to work with bread dough. The cabinet guy had scraps of maple, glued them together, planed it and installed it as our 4 foot square butcher block top. That is the kind of stuff that makes it usable and liveable. My wife added our double oven and gas cooktop about 5 years after we moved in. Couldn't get the slide in range/oven to cook like she wanted it to. We had to have a gas line run to accommodate the additional load so keep that in mind.

Good advice. Thanks. Are islands typically taller than cabinets?

Mrs. Buehler 445 is 5'5, but I'm 6'3.

[Nirvana58]

Everybody on here is saying skip formica and automatically go with the expensive countertops. However, that really depends on if your planning on reselling your home and what price range your home is in. Putting Granite

countertops in a 20K house is just going to lose you money. It really depends on what neighborhood you are in and the top price your house will sell at. Yes, Granite counters will help it sell faster but is that worth the 8K or

something you won't make back on the resell. Now if the house is worth more than 150K I would definitely say look into granite. But below that it is a toss up because your will probably pay more for that counter than you will

get back.

[LoneWolf]

Originally Posted by Nirvana58

Everybody on here is saying skip formica and automatically go with the expensive countertops. However, that really depends on if your planning on reselling your home and what price range your home is in. Putting Granite

countertops in a 20K house is just going to lose you money. It really depends on what neighborhood you are in and the top price your house will sell at. Yes, Granite counters will help it sell faster but is that worth the 8K or

something you won't make back on the resell. Now if the house is worth more than 150K I would definitely say look into granite. But below that it is a toss up because your will probably pay more for that counter than you will

get back.

8k for granite countertops? How big do you think his kitchen is?

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Valiant

I helped pour two cement countertops. One went with sanded natural look, the other with stained marbling effect acid. Both look great. And way cheaper than granite. Just have to practice making sure there are no bubbles.

Do you have any pictures? Would like to see what they look like. Sounds pretty neat.

I'm not sure how that would look in a suburban neighborhood like mine.