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Old 10-10-2018, 06:10 AM  
arrwheader arrwheader is offline
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Is a defensive 4-3 change coming to KC?

I saw this article from arrowhead addict. The guy had an interesting theory that KC might be thinking about switching to the 4-3 scheme based on some recent draft picks and other things. Thought it was worth discussing. What do you say experts? Any merit to what this guys saying?

Full article here:

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2018/10/...ges-andy-reid/

Quote:
Does Brett Veach have a secret master plan to fix the defense?

Thomas Welte1 h ago
Has Brett Veach been planning on a long-term defensive overhaul for 2019 that includes a change at defensive coordinator?

Patrick Mahomes has taken the NFL by storm and made believers out of even his harshest critics, and the Kansas City Chiefs are widely considered to be Super Bowl contenders this season.

In the midst of the best start to a season a quarterback in a red and gold (and possibly any other color) uniform has ever had, there is a layer of anxiety from the Kansas City faithful. The offense is firing on all cylinders and has grabbed the attention of the media, but the defense leaves anyone who has followed the Chiefs with a gnawing sensation in their gut on game day.

The Kansas City Chiefs defense is bad. The Chiefs are currently last in the league in total defense. Even after a good showing against the Blake Bortles-led Jaguars, the Chiefs are still giving up nearly 20 yards more per game than the next worst defense, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

While many are drooling over Patrick Mahomes, there remains a great many of us who are sitting at home having flashbacks to 2003, or to the 2013 wild card playoff games against the Colts, or the infamous no punt game. There is no shortage of victories squandered away by subpar defensive units in Kansas City Chiefs history.

Is it possible though that general manager Brett Veach has a secret master plan to fix the maligned unit? Or is the young shot caller for the Chiefs in over his head? Let’s take a look.

I am an avid podcast listener and have to drive a lot for my work. This combination leaves me with plenty of time to dive into a collection of true crime stories and conspiracy theory breakdowns. It was on a particularly long drive back in May, just a few weeks after the NFL draft, that I began to ponder what on earth the Chiefs were doing to their defense. This is when I started to form my own conspiracy theory about the Chiefs and the plan they have for their defense.

The Chiefs traded Marcus Peters this offseason. That move has been discussed ad nauseum, but it is worth mentioning simply because it made (and still makes) very little sense. They brought in Anthony Hitchens who had spent the past year playing inside for Dallas in their 4-3 defense. Then the draft came.

The Chiefs selected Breeland Speaks and announced him as a linebacker, an edge defender. Breeland Speaks is 283 pounds and ran a 4.87, oversized for a linebacker and not possessing the speed you want when dropping a guy into coverage. Their next selection was Derrick Nnadi who was a run stuffing nose tackle, but a bit undersized for a traditional 0 tech nose. Next came Dorian O’Daniel, an undersized but athletic linebacker from Clemson.

What do all of these players have in common? None of them are limited to, or traditional fits, in a base 3-4 defense. I watched a lot of tape on Speaks after the Chiefs drafted him, and Ole Miss played him all over the field. In my opinion, Speaks looked like a prototypical base (left) defensive end in a 4-3. Derrick Nnadi is a natural 1 tech, lining up between the center and guard and defending the run. Dorian O’Daniel makes sense as a weak side linebacker.

So here it is, my thought out theory: Brett Veach is stocking the Chiefs with defenders to make the switch to a base 4-3 defense in 2019.

As of this writing, 7 of the top 10 defenses in the NFL run a 4-3 base defense. I will add that caveat that in today’s NFL the gap between defensive philosophies is narrowing, and no team plays out of only one formation.

That said, as the rules have changed to create a cushion around the quarterback and wide receivers the league defenses are moving away from heavy press man schemes that rely on jarring the quarterback with a pass rush. That is not to say that teams are straying away from pass rushers, but instead they are focusing on using athletic linebackers and safeties to create disequilibrium in the short to intermediate parts of the field, a defensive line to apply pressure, and corners who are aiming to not give up the big play.

This defensive evolution appears to be a marriage of concepts from the Tampa 2 defensive philosophy and the Seattle Seahawks Legion of Boom philosophy. Looking at the Philadelphia Eagles defensive lineup may help you visualize the concepts.

Andy Reid ran a 4-3 defense in Philadelphia, but inherited a 3-4 team in Kansas City. Reid brought in Bob Sutton who, despite the teams recent struggles, did an excellent job of coaching in his beginning years in Kansas City. Things have changed drastically since then and I firmly believe Sutton will retire this offseason. This opens the door for the Chiefs to make a change on defense since, as their defense sits right now, they are not married to any particular defensive philosophy. They have several players who could play in either scheme.

So who could the Chiefs bring in to coordinate a new defense? Let’s look at some options.

Last edited by arrwheader; 10-10-2018 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:17 AM   #31
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Houston could probably fit 4-3 DE as well if he restructures. I dream of the day that they switch back to a 4-3.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:18 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by mcaj22 View Post
This would be by far the shittiest defense in the NFL
They are the shittiest defense in the NFL and have been for 2 seasons.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:23 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
They are the shittiest defense in the NFL and have been for 2 seasons.
Sadly This.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:25 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by The Pest View Post
So we took players.....played them out of position, including learning new positions, and then weíre going to switch them back?
I think Hitler did this, too.

Nobody will ever see it coming!

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Old 10-10-2018, 08:25 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
They are the shittiest defense in the NFL and have been for 2 seasons.
^^^
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:26 AM   #36
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A lot of wishful thinking in this thread. I don't see it. They're going to roll with what they have, including Bob Sutton...
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:35 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Jimmya View Post
The chiefs nickel package is a 4-2-5. Front four are really good pass rushers, especially on the edge. They do run quite a bit of this 4 man front.
This, I believe, is the key point ... or points to the key point.

It may be a 4-man front, but how often do they drop somebody?

It is my understanding that, in today's NFL, there really isn't any good ol' 4-3 vs 3-4 defenses as we've known them. Teams use their "base alignment" in a very, very small percentage of snaps. Instead, it seems like everything is sub-packaged (like condoms from your local, friendly, neighborhood Walgreens ... you know, double wrapped).

2-man fronts aren't even that unusual anymore. It's a passing league, now. It's all about speed and lots of dudes in the d-backfield.

It isn't like the '70s or the '80s. This ain't your granddaddy's NFL.

With that in mind, this idea seems ... well ... kinda stupid. What am I missing?

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Old 10-10-2018, 08:41 AM   #38
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Jesus, you've gone full homer. Kpassagnon and Speaks have potential. That's it. O'Daniel and Niemann have shown literally nothing and if Terrance Smith is anywhere near the starting defense next year with how absolutely shit he's been Veach deserves a slap in the face.
Kpass and Speaks have a lot of potential, they just need more snaps. The reason O'D and Niemann "have shown literally nothing" is that Sutton isn't using their talents. Niemann looked very good in preseason.
But back to the question. My opinion is more LBs, more better, but I was a LB when I played so I might be biased. But one thing is for certain, Sutton has to go. Going to a 4-3 would allow us to let go of Ford without much damage and there is no reason you couldn't bring in Houston on passing downs.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:44 AM   #39
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We are atrocious against the run in a 3-4. Thus, a 4-3 would be even worse.

That said, nobody seems to want to commit to the run against us. Therefore, a 4-3 would probably help our pass defense.

Bring it on.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:48 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post
Tanoh is a better fit at 4-3 DE, too.

Tanoh
Nnadi
Jones
Speaks

O'Daniel
Hitchens
Smith/Niemann

Dump Ford, Ragland and Houston.
You still want Ford OR Houston as the Will in a 4-3, IMO.

I don't think they'll switch to a 4-3 if for no other reason than I want them to. I think it's been a long overdue switch they should have made 3-4 years ago and their personnel SCREAMS 4-3 at this point (yes, Jones would wreck shit as an under-tackle).

They spend so damn much time in 4 man fronts due to sub packages that it's ridiculous they don't have a base set with 4 down lineman. If nothing else, it has them in a spot where they have 4 dude's playing with their hand on the ground the vast majority of the time - they just get to maintain consistent technique that way.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:49 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by bobbything View Post
We are atrocious against the run in a 3-4. Thus, a 4-3 would be even worse.
I don't know. The Cowboys had a top 10 rushing defense with Hitchens at MLB in a 4-3. And in fact, the #1 rushing defense in 2016.

Ragland is absolutely killing us. If Jones and Nnadi can plug the middle in a 4-3 I think the run defense could actually improve.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:53 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post

Ragland is absolutely killing us. If Jones and Nnadi can plug the middle in a 4-3 I think the run defense could actually improve.
This.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
They spend so damn much time in 4 man fronts due to sub packages that it's ridiculous they don't have a base set with 4 down lineman. If nothing else, it has them in a spot where they have 4 dude's playing with their hand on the ground the vast majority of the time - they just get to maintain consistent technique that way.
Anything that keeps Houston and Ford from pass coverage is good by me. Neither of them belong anywhere other than on the line. Ford does suck against the run but, as mentioned, nobody seems to want to stick with the run against us anyway.

Having two pure pass rushers, plus Jones, would make the 4-man front pretty good. Just need a decent MLB. That seems easier than trying to convert a bunch of guys into things that they're not.

That said, Sutton seems to be using Ford/Houston better this year than he had in the past. I don't know the %'s but would be interested in seeing how often those guys are in pass coverage this year vs. previous seasons.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:56 AM   #44
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I don't know. The Cowboys had a top 10 rushing defense with Hitchens at MLB in a 4-3. And in fact, the #1 rushing defense in 2016.
I didn't realize Hitchens was MLB in Dallas. If that's the case, I honestly don't understand what Sutton is doing with him. Houston/Ford on the edges, Jones at DT, and Hitchens at MLB. Seems like it could work.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:56 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by oldman View Post
Kpass and Speaks have a lot of potential, they just need more snaps. The reason O'D and Niemann "have shown literally nothing" is that Sutton isn't using their talents. Niemann looked very good in preseason.
But back to the question. My opinion is more LBs, more better, but I was a LB when I played so I might be biased. But one thing is for certain, Sutton has to go. Going to a 4-3 would allow us to let go of Ford without much damage and there is no reason you couldn't bring in Houston on passing downs.
Sutton?

Niemann hasn't played because he's been hurt.
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