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View Poll Results: What is the ethical approach to ordering soft drinks in a self-refill environment?
Always order the smallest size. It's the logical best value and the restaurant knows what it's doing. 65 67.71%
Order a medium soda with expectations of getting a refill. It's the compromise that is most fair to both parties in combination. 19 19.79%
Order a size that approximates your expected need, even if it means paying more for a large. 5 5.21%
Don't order a soda in a self-refill environment. It's too fraught with ethical minefields. 2 2.08%
I would need to take a college philosophy course before I can answer this. 5 5.21%
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:52 PM  
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The ethics of get-it-yourself refills.

I was in a restaurant tonight, and it had a system in place that I like. They set the soda machine out in the dining room, and you can just go get your own refill. Getting my own soda refill is one of my key selection criteria for restaurants these days.

However, I have a conundrum. When I order a soda, I'm usually asked if I want a small, medium, or large.

Now, think about that for a moment. It's free refills with no shame. I don't have to ask someone for my refills, I just go get them.

So the logical approach here is to always order a small drink, right? Maybe I have to get up sooner to get my refill, but big deal. It burns calories to walk over there.

But at the same time, I feel guilty ordering a small soda if I'm already figuring that I'll get a refill. Essentially, I'm getting a large soda for the price of a small. Is this ethical? If I know that I want more than the XX ounces in a small size, should I order the size that closest approximates my need? Or should I look out for my own self-interest and always order the smallest size at the lowest cost?

Poll coming. You can get up and vote on it yourself.

Last edited by Rain Man; 10-09-2018 at 11:57 PM..
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:21 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Rest easy in the future with the knowledge that if an establishment makes their soda fountain self-serve, refills are an implied part of the deal. STOP ASKING PERMISSION LIKE A SCARED LITTLE GIRL. You're an alpha male, start acting like it!
Yeah, it's definitely implied if the machine is in the customer area, but I recently ran into an oddity of an exception.

There's a pizza place near my house that's a terrible sports bar. (The terrible part is unrelated.) They have a soda machine out in the dining room that was clearly intended to be self-serve upon installation. It was ten feet from my table. But it wouldn't work when a couple of people went up to it.

They had a server who meandered about and randomly served customers with marginal competence, and at some point he got someone a refill. He went over to the machine, and there was a key on the side that was in the keyhole. It was nothing special, just a run of the mill key. When he turned the key, he was able to use the machine. Then he turned the key back off when he finished to disable the machine. He left it in the lock.

So now I had broken the code. I could get my own refill. But I also figured that they were sending me the message that I shouldn't. So I had the server do it when he at some point wandered within my beckoning range. It was weird and inconvenient.

This place was not competently run, so I'm assuming that they locked the machine up to save money. Or maybe to give the server more tip opportunities or something. But as a customer it was very annoying to be ten feet from refills and then feel like I couldn't use the machine. I've never seen that happen before.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:28 AM   #122
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Jesus, man. That's like tempting innocent people with soda and encouraging crime ... simultaneously.

That's insidious ... like Viet Cong level insidious.

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Old 10-11-2018, 10:36 AM   #123
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Jesus, man. That's like tempting innocent people with soda and encouraging crime ... simultaneously.

That's insidious ... like Viet Cong level insidious.

FAX
It was downright cruel.

But then again, these were the same people who made me miss Tyreek's 91-yard punt return in Week 1 because they wanted to wait until every early game ended before they turned the TVs to the late games.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:40 AM   #124
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Look ... far be it from me to tell you where to purchase your sodas and all ...

But don't they have other places in town that present the games in a proper, thoughtful, customer-centric manner while not enticing people into a life of crime?

Just a thought ...

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Old 10-11-2018, 10:48 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX View Post
Jesus, man. That's like tempting innocent people with soda and encouraging crime ... simultaneously.

That's insidious ... like Viet Cong level insidious.

FAX
I wouldn't be surprised if the area around the key is obstructed by a hidden pit with punji sticks.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:52 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX View Post
Look ... far be it from me to tell you where to purchase your sodas and all ...

But don't they have other places in town that present the games in a proper, thoughtful, customer-centric manner while not enticing people into a life of crime?

Just a thought ...

FAX
Yeah, and I shall not be visiting this establishment again. It's the second-closest sports bar to my house and I thought I would give it a try to add some diversity, but never again.

In Week 1, I went there, and they had about a dozen TVs and they only had five customer groups. The Chiefs-Chargers tilt started at 2:00 and at 1:50 I asked them if they could switch one of the unwatched TVs to my game. The manager said that they only switch TVs after the early games end. I explained the logic problem of this and they said that would change a TV for me.

They didn't.

At 1:55 I told the server that my game started in five minutes and it would sure be nice if I could get a TV switched. He said he would do it, and then walked to a corner and started watching videos on his phone.

At 2:00 I told him my game had started. He acted annoyed and said that he didn't control the TVs, but he would try to switch it. He went over and didn't know how to find the channel guide to switch stations.

At 2:05 I was watching the play by play on my phone when I saw Tyreek's 91-yard punt return pop up. I informed the server that he had ruined my life.

At 2:10 the manager came out and helped the server switch to the Chiefs game.

At 2:11 I completed my sorcery incantation to ensure that any children the manager and server have will be unattractive and socially awkward.

At 3:00, the server came to me and asked if I would mind moving to a different TV once halftime hit. Not trusting his intent, I asked why, and he said it's because the Redskins game could only be received on my TV. I told him I would do it as soon as I saw the Chiefs appear on another screen.

At halftime, I moved to a different TV. It was not near tables, so I stood for the entire second half. It turned out that a Redskins fan had missed the entire second quarter because they had waited until halftime to move me, even though I could have moved earlier. At that point, I uttered another incantation on behalf of the Redskins fan.

And then I couldn't get my soda refills on top of all that.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:58 AM   #127
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Don't drink sodey pop, it is quite unhealthy.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:22 AM   #128
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Damn, Mr. Rain Man.

That trumps "Hook Man" as the most horrifying campfire story I've ever heard. Geez ...

You can throw soda too, you know.

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Old 10-11-2018, 11:59 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Yeah, it's definitely implied if the machine is in the customer area, but I recently ran into an oddity of an exception.

There's a pizza place near my house that's a terrible sports bar. (The terrible part is unrelated.) They have a soda machine out in the dining room that was clearly intended to be self-serve upon installation. It was ten feet from my table. But it wouldn't work when a couple of people went up to it.

They had a server who meandered about and randomly served customers with marginal competence, and at some point he got someone a refill. He went over to the machine, and there was a key on the side that was in the keyhole. It was nothing special, just a run of the mill key. When he turned the key, he was able to use the machine. Then he turned the key back off when he finished to disable the machine. He left it in the lock.

So now I had broken the code. I could get my own refill. But I also figured that they were sending me the message that I shouldn't. So I had the server do it when he at some point wandered within my beckoning range. It was weird and inconvenient.

This place was not competently run, so I'm assuming that they locked the machine up to save money. Or maybe to give the server more tip opportunities or something. But as a customer it was very annoying to be ten feet from refills and then feel like I couldn't use the machine. I've never seen that happen before.
I think that’s how they did it in East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:04 PM   #130
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Don't drink sodey pop, it is quite unhealthy.
You're about the 5th person to say that in this thread. No one cares.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:05 PM   #131
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Wait, hold on a sec...some of you bastards are so cheap that you steal the remnants of mostly empty Tabasco sauce from Chipotle? WTF is wrong with you people?
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:31 PM   #132
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Wait, hold on a sec...some of you bastards are so cheap that you steal the remnants of mostly empty Tabasco sauce from Chipotle? WTF is wrong with you people?
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I've seen more than half empty bottles stolen from Chipotle.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:33 PM   #133
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I've seen more than half empty bottles stolen from Chipotle.
And I've seen actual cash being stolen there as well by them claiming it is good food
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:36 PM   #134
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Wait, hold on a sec...some of you bastards are so cheap that you steal the remnants of mostly empty Tabasco sauce from Chipotle? WTF is wrong with you people?
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Not to belabor it, but it appears that the situation isn't being conveyed clearly enough.

People aren't 'stealing' Tabasco 'remnants.'

By their account, they are finding a Tabasco bottle with the amount remaining that they intended to put on their burrito anyway, and taking the bottle home to put it on in the comfort of their own home, on their own plates, at their own table, etc., instead of standing at the counter and fussing around with their burrito in public and leaving a mess behind.

And as for 'some of you bastards,' no one here has said they did it [whether 'it' is taking a whole bottle, taking an empty bottle, or even putting Tabasco on Chipotle]. Discuss said he heard it happens and I mentioned reasons I heard other people used to explain why.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:57 PM   #135
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