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Old 06-08-2018, 08:42 AM  
Donger Donger is offline
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Trump Calls for Russia to Rejoin G7, Exacerbating Rift with Allies

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...t-with-allies/

President Trump called on allies to reinstate Russia as part of the G7 Friday, deepening a rift over trade policy that spilled out on Twitter just days ahead of the summit in Canada.

“Russia should be in this meeting,” Trump told reporters at the White House immediately before departing for the summit. “Why are we having a meeting without Russia being in the meeting? And I would recommend — and it’s up to them — but Russia should be in the meeting, it should be a part of it. You know, whether you like it or not, and it may not be politically correct, but we have a world to run and the G-7 — which used to be the G-8, they threw Russia out — they should let Russia come back in because we should have Russia at the negotiating table.”

Russia was expelled from the G7 in 2014 in retaliation for its annexation of the Crimean peninsula — a violation of international law that drew universal condemnation from U.S. allies.

The unexpected show of support for Russia came after Trump traded blows on Twitter with French president Emmanuel Macron and Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau over a perceived imbalance in the trade relationship between the United States and its allies.
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Following the Twitter spat, the White House announced late Thursday that Trump would not attend a session dedicated to climate change on Saturday morning, announcing that he would instead fly directly to Singapore to meet with Kim Jong-un.

The public back-and-forth came days after the Trump administration imposed significant steel and aluminum tariffs on a number of U.S. allies, including European Union nations and Canada, after initially exempting the countries from the protectionist measure. Both Canada and the E.U. have challenged Trump’s national-security justification for the tariffs in complaints filed with the World Trade Organization, and both have also announced retaliatory tariffs.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:35 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Sure:

Iraq. I can be argued that the invasion in 2003 was just a carry-on of the Gulf War, which was authorized by the UN.

Libya. We didn't invade and take over Libya.

Afghanistan. We were attacked by al-Qaeda, which was being shielded by the Taliban.

Syria. We didn't invade and take over Syria.
Clearly you don't know the definition of this word........
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:36 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by BleedingRed View Post
Wait wait wait, Donger can you tell me why we weren't expelled from the G8 for.


Irag
Libya
Afganistan
Syria
etc........

Talk about being hypocritical guys, the world had the chance to say "NO" to Russia and they didn't.
Russian intervention in various civil wars would be equivalent to our intervention in various civil wars (although Iraq and Afghanistan are obviously different.)

However, I believe we have not made a blatant land grab since the Mexican American War. I don't think you could even count the Spanish American War, as we did not actually "annex" any territory. (The Philippians were made a territory, but I do not believe it was intended to be permanent, and of course it was not permanent.)

When we invade Canada or Mexico and declare the captured land to be part of the US, you may have a point.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:36 PM   #93
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Clearly you don't know the definition of this word........
Yes, I do. But, the "take over" part is what really matters anyway.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:39 PM   #94
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Let me guess, Obama's embrace of authoritarian leaders and pushing away of allies didn't cause you any concern. How close did I get?
I'm not concerned about stuff you just make up.

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Its amazing watching people who would describe themselves as "patriotic Americans" fall for fascism because they identify with that "tribe" now. I really don't know how much more blatant it can get watching an American President get manipulated as foreign adversary puppet. A President that embraces fascist tactics and ideals all the way to using faux patriotism to whip up emotional support. It is utterly shocking.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:47 PM   #95
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No, it's my way of saying what I intended to say.

Feel free to look back, I have a long resume of disappointment that the left is so invested in meaningless symbolic gestures, . . . listening tours, posthumous pardons, awards and proclamations, and most problematic, a shit ton of goodwill for 'well intended' disastrous legislation.

And I'm 'actually laughing' as well because the hatred of Trump once again reliably finds the left bending to positions I've held all along like they flipping invented attention to detail and results in the past year.

Search your heart and you'll know its true. If Obama had pardoned Ali, the narrative would obviate the issue of mootness and fawn all over how this 'healed a decades-long cultural rift in our painful racist past.' And how it demonstrated the 'emotional power of progress and reconciliation.' Heck, it might have gotten him another Nobel Peace Prize.
Babble lee once again completely ignores the 8 years of Obama's presidency to wax poetic about what he mistakenly believes is something new.

You never heard babble lee stand on a soap box and rant at the right about the color of a suit, mustard, feet on the desk, or any of the other daily outrages that kept the faux news views foaming at the mouth.

Poor babble lee and Trump are always the victims and you guys should just leave them alone!
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:27 AM   #96
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Now this is Free Trade—not the crap managed trade currently...

So much for Trump not being for free-trade because this shows he knows what free-trade actually is:
Donald Trump Calls for Total Tariff Removals at G7 Summit

President Donald Trump revealed his preference for totally free trade to promote economic growth, confirming reports that he brought up the proposal at the G7 summit with world leaders.
“That’s the way it should be, no tariffs, no barriers … and no subsidies,” Trump said, referring to his former college education. “That’s the way you learned at the Wharton school of finance, I mean that would be the ultimate thing.”

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...emovals-at-g7/
I have to wonder if his tariff threats are just his way of getting to real free-trade over the fake stuff. After staking out what seems like an extreme position or shaking others up is also a part of The Art of the Deal.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:34 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by NinerDoug View Post
Russian intervention in various civil wars would be equivalent to our intervention in various civil wars (although Iraq and Afghanistan are obviously different.)

However, I believe we have not made a blatant land grab since the Mexican American War. I don't think you could even count the Spanish American War, as we did not actually "annex" any territory. (The Philippians were made a territory, but I do not believe it was intended to be permanent, and of course it was not permanent.)

When we invade Canada or Mexico and declare the captured land to be part of the US, you may have a point.
Crimea wasn't annexed, it was Russia's original property for centuries and given to ukraine as a gift to Krischev in the 50s.


Besides, The people of Crimea voted to return to Russia. And John kerry and George Bushman have long preached that "self determination" is a principle we support.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:39 AM   #98
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One thing about the allies of the US is that they'll probably always be our allies. It'll take a lot too cause an issue serious enough to strain most solid relations that the US has with the majority of countries that stand with the US on most issues. Obammer proved that theory
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:42 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Crimea wasn't annexed, it was Russia's original property for centuries and given to ukraine as a gift to Krischev in the 50s.

Even still during that whole time was managed under Moscow's control per records at the Kremlin. This can be looked up but they never gave up control....afterall Ukraine was also part of the Soviet Union.

It actually once belonged to the Ottoman Turks, but Catherine the Great won it in the 1700'a in a treaty after war with the Ottomans. Russia, I believe under Catherine as well, is responsible for creating most of the Ukraine expanding it's borders.

Quote:
Besides, The people of Crimea voted to return to Russia. And John kerry and George Bushman have long preached that "self determination" is a principle we support.

Exactly. Expect this all to be ignored by the Russophobes, who criticize Russia for what the Brits and US govts have done.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:07 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Crimea wasn't annexed, it was Russia's original property for centuries and given to ukraine as a gift to Krischev in the 50s.


Besides, The people of Crimea voted to return to Russia. And John kerry and George Bushman have long preached that "self determination" is a principle we support.
Nice to see you're still a liar in addition to being a waste of skin. Good combo, Bitch.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:32 PM   #101
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This is a verbose way of saying “I don’t care, and it’s funny leftists care now.”

I don’t care. I’m actually laughing since Ali doesn’t need a pardon. His conviction was overturned by the SCOTUS in 1971. I’m laughing since our president can’t even read Wikipedia.
Sort of. Pardons and appellate reversals are 2 different things.

An appellate reversal means that there were legal errors in the trial proceedings that made the result suspect. A pardon recognizes that the whole thing should be reversed, that there is generally a non-legal reason for mercy.

Jack Johnson, for example, was “rightly” convicted. By that, I mean that all the i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed for the legal procedure and evidence in his case. There were no legal errors in his prosecution. But the Mann Act in general and his case in particular were motivated by hostility to African Americans. He was pardoned because he shouldn’t have been prosecuted. There was a non-legal reason for mercy.

I can see why some would say a pardon in these circumstances (either Johnson or Ali) is an empty gesture or not needed but it really is a way of saying that our justice system was flawed and we strive to do better in the future. And that can happen irrespective of whether the conviction was overturned.

A pardon for Ali would be a recognition that he should not have been prosecuted irrespective of whether the legal procedures were appropriately followed in his case. For that reason, I don’t think that pardoning someone who is now dead is always an empty gesture.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:34 PM   #102
stevieray stevieray is offline
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Originally Posted by frozenchief View Post
Sort of. Pardons and appellate reversals are 2 different things.

An appellate reversal means that there were legal errors in the trial proceedings that made the result suspect. A pardon recognizes that the whole thing should be reversed, that there is generally a non-legal reason for mercy.

Jack Johnson, for example, was “rightly” convicted. By that, I mean that all the i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed for the legal procedure and evidence in his case. There were no legal errors in his prosecution. But the Mann Act in general and his case in particular were motivated by hostility to African Americans. He was pardoned because he shouldn’t have been prosecuted. There was a non-legal reason for mercy.

I can see why some would say a pardon in these circumstances (either Johnson or Ali) is an empty gesture or not needed but it really is a way of saying that our justice system was flawed and we strive to do better in the future. And that can happen irrespective of whether the conviction was overturned.

A pardon for Ali would be a recognition that he should not have been prosecuted irrespective of whether the legal procedures were appropriately followed in his case. For that reason, I don’t think that pardoning someone who is now dead is always an empty gesture.
..but...but..Trump.


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Old 06-09-2018, 01:06 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by frozenchief View Post
Sort of. Pardons and appellate reversals are 2 different things.

An appellate reversal means that there were legal errors in the trial proceedings that made the result suspect. A pardon recognizes that the whole thing should be reversed, that there is generally a non-legal reason for mercy.

Jack Johnson, for example, was “rightly” convicted. By that, I mean that all the i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed for the legal procedure and evidence in his case. There were no legal errors in his prosecution. But the Mann Act in general and his case in particular were motivated by hostility to African Americans. He was pardoned because he shouldn’t have been prosecuted. There was a non-legal reason for mercy.

I can see why some would say a pardon in these circumstances (either Johnson or Ali) is an empty gesture or not needed but it really is a way of saying that our justice system was flawed and we strive to do better in the future. And that can happen irrespective of whether the conviction was overturned.

A pardon for Ali would be a recognition that he should not have been prosecuted irrespective of whether the legal procedures were appropriately followed in his case. For that reason, I don’t think that pardoning someone who is now dead is always an empty gesture.
Oh great, now I suppose you're saying the entire history of presidential prerogative to correct injustices is like totally in love with Der Drumpfer too.

Admit it, he has you by the pussy right now, and you love it!!
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:39 PM   #104
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by banecat View Post
One thing about the allies of the US is that they'll probably always be our allies. It'll take a lot too cause an issue serious enough to strain most solid relations that the US has with the majority of countries that stand with the US on most issues. Obammer proved that theory
It's not like they've never disagreed with America. It's just today they're all flamin' socialists, technocrats and globalists—the opposite of Trump.
Heck we even had some disagreements with Israel in the past even under Reagan. None today though.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:49 PM   #105
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