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Old 04-27-2017, 07:19 PM  
Dante84 Dante84 is offline
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*****The Patrick Mahomes Thread*****

IT ****ING HAPPENED



OP UPDATE:

Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy!

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Old 05-15-2018, 08:24 PM   #11341
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Watson is good but not great. Mahomes has to prove his mojo over the course of a season.
There is NO doubt which QB I would rather ride with though.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:25 PM   #11342
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This is the article by Seth Keysor over on that website. Hopefully it all works and everyone enjoys it. If something doesn't work, let me know, and I will try to fix it







Beyond the Arm: Patrick Mahomes’ strong eye level and pocket presence could be the real key to his success



Whenever people talk about Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes, there’s always one thing that comes up first: THE ARM. Whether it’s calling him a gunslinger, referencing his cannon or using some version of the phrases “can throw from any platform” and “frozen rope,” Mahomes’ arm is at the forefront of every discussion about him. In his junior season at Texas Tech in 2016, Mahomes tied the NCAA mark for passing yards in a game with 734, and finished the season with 5,052 yards and 41 touchdowns.



The general narrative you hear is that he’s a kid with a rocket arm who makes all the throws, but little else is said. In fact, the rest of his game is routinely questioned, so that one could easily walk away from a conversation about Mahomes believing he’s all arm and nothing else.



I’m here to correct that narrative, as well as hopefully change the way you value various quarterback traits. Welcome to the “Beyond the Arm” series, in which I’ll be discussing aspects of Mahomes’ game that have been largely ignored.



Today, our focus will be on two of the most critical components of a quarterback’s success: eye level and pocket presence. The two must be discussed together because they are inextricably intertwined on every snap.



You’ve undoubtedly heard those terms before, but perhaps didn’t really think them through. “Eye level” is where the quarterback is looking during a passing play. Are his eyes “up” and watching the receivers and coverage? Or are his eyes “down,” looking at the pass rush and potential running lanes?



Pocket presence is closely related to eye level. It is the ability of the quarterback to move his feet away from pressure, into the clean areas of the pocket (or even outside the pocket) while continuing to keep his eyes up. You’ll often hear about a quarterback’s ability to feel pressure, which is referring to the same trait. You don’t have to be a mobile quarterback to possess this ability, as you can see after watching Tom Brady for even a few plays.



These are two of the most important traits an NFL quarterback can possess, and they often separate average quarterbacks from great ones. Mahomes, who was drafted by the Chiefs with the 10th overall pick in the 2017 NFL draft, has both in spades. Watch his eyes in this clip:







This play was widely circulated following the Chiefs’ 30-12 preseason win over the Bengals last August, and for good reason. It’s an impressive play. However, when discussing it, most people focus on Mahomes fending off the free rusher and his ability to fire the ball with velocity, despite being on the run and off-balance.



By doing so, they miss a critical component of the play. Watch Mahomes’ eye level. Note that the moment he turns, following play action, he has a defender in his face. Despite that, he almost immediately turns his eyes away from said defender and looks up the field. He maintains that eye level on the run (try running sideways without looking sometime), and that is why he’s able to spot his tight end coming open against man coverage with the safety too deep to crash down in time.



Yes, the throw was great. But it never happens if Mahomes doesn’t maintain proper eye level.



The importance of eye level can only be completely understood when you see what happens when quarterbacks fail to keep their eyes down the field. Fair warning, you’re not going to enjoy the next two clips, but they are essential to seeing the importance of this issue.







Keep in mind I’m not picking on Alex Smith, who had a very good 2017 with the Chiefs and who spent five seasons as Kansas City’s starter before being traded to the Redskins in January. However, it must be noted that eye level and pocket presence were two of the issues Smith struggled with, even during his career-best performance last season.



You can see that Smith looks at his first read, and then on his way to his second read, drops his eye level to the pass rush. Even though there’s no pressure, he feels the need to scramble. This is often the result when a quarterback drops his eyes. Even a relatively calm pocket is still chaotic in the NFL, and offensive linemen are usually just a few seconds from losing protection. If a quarterback allows himself to look at all of that, panic is nearly inevitable. That’s the first problem with dropping your eyes.



The second is simple: You can’t look at two things at once. There’s a reason texting and driving is illegal. When you’re looking at the phone, you cannot focus on the road. The human eye doesn’t allow it. Similarly, when a quarterback is looking at the rush in front of him, he cannot focus on his receivers. Here’s the above play from an all-22 view.







The Titans ran fairly effective man coverage with two deep safeties on this play. Because of that specific coverage and the matchups involved, Smith did end up with two receivers as options on the play, once his first read (to his right) was covered. Tyreek Hill’s defender couldn’t quite keep up with him, and the safety was a bit too deep to drive on a well-placed throw. That’s a first down. In the meantime, Kareem Hunt’s defender played too far off and a ball on his body would be a modest gain with the chance of Hunt winning 1×1 in space for a first down.



Of course, neither happened. Instead, Smith dropped his eyes and scrambled from imaginary pressure, a direct result of poor eye level. Compare that to this play:







Here, Mahomes faces pressure from an unblocked blitzer. Watch Mahomes’ eyes (well, the back of his helmet, but you get the idea). He sees the blitzer coming, but keeps looking at his receivers and the coverage. His eventual target, Albert Wilson, isn’t open immediately. Had Mahomes dropped his eyes he never would have seen Wilson get open. This is an uncommon snap not just due to the strength Mahomes showed (both his lower body and his arm), but because of his uncanny ability to keep his eyes up.



If you watch Mahomes’ snaps during his three seasons at Texas Tech, during the 2017 NFL preseason and in his lone regular season start, a 27-24 win over the Broncos on Dec. 31, you’ll see that Mahomes almost never drops his eyes from down the field. If you get a chance, watch some of his snaps and then compare him to other quarterbacks in the league. In this specific area, Mahomes is already ahead of many of his peers.



That unique ability to maintain proper eye level is made possible because of Mahomes’ ability to feel pressure in the pocket without necessarily focusing on the rushers.







Here, Mahomes must turn his back to the defense to perform a play-action fake. This is a risky move for a quarterback, as you can’t know for certain what you’ll see when you turn around. In this case, Mahomes has an edge rusher crashing inside on the left tackle, who does a decent job but gives up some ground into the pocket. This creates a bit of chaos. Additionally, a blitzing secondary player gains the edge on Anthony Sherman. This creates a bit more chaos.



Watch Mahomes’ first move after reaching the top of his drop. He bounces to the left without even looking at the edge rusher creating issues within the pocket. This places his lineman between him and the defender and buys an extra second or two. Then, all while keeping his eyes down the field, Mahomes moves forward to avoid the blitzing secondary player and the edge rusher, who has recovered from Erving’s shove, and calmly delivers a strike to Wilson.



This was another instance where people focused on the “gunslinger” aspect of the play, which is Mahomes’ ability to throw with velocity despite not setting his shoulders (the “no look throw”). And yes, that’s crazy to watch because it’s so rare. However, much like the snaps discussed above, the incredible doesn’t occur if Mahomes doesn’t display the pocket presence to calmly navigate a little chaos.



So what does poor pocket presence look like? Basically, the opposite.







I chose this snap of Browns quarterback DeShone Kizer because he does a decent job keeping his eyes down the field, so it provides an opportunity to differentiate between eye level and pocket presence. What I want you to notice is the effect Kizer’s movement has on his blockers, in particular his left tackle and running back. As Kizer drops back and surveys the field, note that both are between him and the rusher, exactly where you want them to be.



Kizer then decides to drift left. The farther left he moves, the less his blockers are between him and the defender. Rather than correcting this mistake and moving right again, where there’s plenty of clean pocket to occupy, Kizer begins running left. All this does is completely remove his blockers from the equation. Think of it in terms of a “clean shot” in target practice (or pool, I suppose). There were barriers between him and the defender, but by moving to his left he gave the defender a clean shot.



For comparison’s sake, here’s one more Mahomes snap.







Compare the movement in the pocket between the two plays. Mahomes moves in such a way to buy space between himself and the defenders and to put his blockers back between him and the rushers. It’s crucial to have both. Buying yourself a yard of space means nothing if you’re removing the barrier between you and the defender. In fact, you’re doing him a favor. Pocket presence isn’t just about where you do go. It’s where you don’t go. And Mahomes doesn’t move any more than necessary before staying put in a spot that’s free of pressure.



Pocket presence is an art form, and very few quarterbacks in the NFL are consistently good in this area. I would argue it’s the least common elite trait at the position, far less common than a great arm. And Mahomes, in limited action, has consistently demonstrated superior pocket presence despite being consistently under pressure. The general rule is that the more pressure a quarterback faces, the worse his pocket presence gets (“happy feet”). Mahomes, in contrast to that rule, has moved well in the pocket when there’s been anything to work with.



Make no mistake, Mahomes is not perfect with his eye level and pocket presence. However, the fact that he was showing these traits on a consistent basis as a rookie is significantly more important than his arm strength. These two complementary traits, not the “cannon,” are the main reason I don’t anticipate a step backward for the Chiefs’ offense in 2018.


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Old 05-15-2018, 08:29 PM   #11343
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I can’t even fathom this board going full homer if Mahomes scored 21 TD’s in 7 games. It would be literal homer insanity. Yes Watson has some serious health concerns but he deserves credit for what he did last season.

I really don’t get the hate for Watson bc he seems like a good dude. We should want him to succeed.

It’s time for the Manning/Brady/Big Ben rule of the AFC to die a horrible death.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:30 PM   #11344
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:44 PM   #11345
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:45 PM   #11346
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I can’t even fathom this board going full homer if Mahomes scored 21 TD’s in 7 games. It would be literal homer insanity. Yes Watson has some serious health concerns but he deserves credit for what he did last season.

I really don’t get the hate for Watson bc he seems like a good dude. We should want him to succeed.

It’s time for the Manning/Brady/Big Ben rule of the AFC to die a horrible death.
It is a combination of Chiefs fans wanting the team to have made the right choice at the draft and also the fact that Watson's play last year was severely overrated by many.

I thought he was good to very good for a rookie but the talk that he was going to be in the conversation for MVP at some point last year was silly and the people who say he was outstanding are wrong.

His PFF rating of around 75 does him justice IMO. He was definitely very good for a rookie again but he threw plenty of prayers and got lucky with many throws IMO.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:51 PM   #11347
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I can’t even fathom this board going full homer if Mahomes scored 21 TD’s in 7 games. It would be literal homer insanity. Yes Watson has some serious health concerns but he deserves credit for what he did last season.

I really don’t get the hate for Watson bc he seems like a good dude. We should want him to succeed.

It’s time for the Manning/Brady/Big Ben rule of the AFC to die a horrible death.
Didn't Watson donate one of his checks to the staff at Texans stadium?

Def want that guy to go far.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:04 PM   #11348
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That guy's arm is just crazy...he's not even really stepping into throws and they are like darts...accurate too. There's a noticeable difference in how fast the ball gets there compared to 90% of NFL QBs. I'm trying to think of a QB that gets that much velocity on strange angle/off-balance throws. That's a rare, natural talent..I guess when your father was a MLB pitcher, you inherit some of that.

He's got superstar written all over him...it's just a matter of time.

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Old 05-15-2018, 11:25 PM   #11349
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I can’t believe this turned back into a Watson-Mahomes discussion again. Let Watson be good. Who gives a shit. I hope he’s great for 8-10 years while Mahomes is there battling him each year.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:20 AM   #11350
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I can’t believe this turned back into a Watson-Mahomes discussion again. Let Watson be good. Who gives a shit. I hope he’s great for 8-10 years while Mahomes is there battling him each year.
A lot of folks here predicted Watson would suck, and now they're doubling down.

Same reason it took like 3 seasons before some would admit Geno Smith was a turd sandwich.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:33 AM   #11351
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Watson is good but not great. Mahomes has to prove his mojo over the course of a season.
There is NO doubt which QB I would rather ride with though.
Not even close.

Watson might be an acceptable consolation prize, but the bears are the team that will spend the next decade kicking themselves in the dick.

Bears... QB's... I mean... **** man. Football gods bless the bears for being retarded.

I wanted Mahomes, but I didn't allow myself to really humor the idea. "Yeah, the chiefs will trade up for a 1st round QB"

I guess if you're going to wait 30 years, do it right. ****. The last time I was this excited for KC football I hadn't hit puberty yet.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:43 AM   #11352
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I don't have a problem with that pass, it's one he should take. The next one is closer to 50/50 but you have Deandre Hopkins against our pathetic secondary so I'd take those odds any day. The one at 6:30 is much more a jump ball. I don't know, maybe him having Hopkins and Fuller(especially Hopkins) makes me look at him like he just has some great talent around him. The same will be the case this year with Mahomes though. I just feel like Hopkins is maybe the best player in the league to toss those jump balls to but maybe he just knows it too and takes advantage of it.
Hopkins against KC's secondary is not a 50/50 ball.

Hopkins in particular is amazing at tracking the ball an high pointing it. Any QB who is throwing to him will know that, and they'll know what clownshoes are defending him.

Watson has more to prove. NFL studying can be brutal. A lot of QB's have, after the tape got deep enough to really study, utterly failed after strong starts.

I call it 'The Tommy Maddox effect".

Also known as Damon Huard syndrome.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:37 AM   #11353
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I really don’t get the hate for Watson bc he seems like a good dude. We should want him to succeed.
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Didn't Watson donate one of his checks to the staff at Texans stadium?

Def want that guy to go far.
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Let Watson be good. Who gives a shit. I hope he’s great for 8-10 years while Mahomes is there battling him each year.
All of this.. I don't understand the Watson hate either. Until he becomes a cheater or rapes someone in a bar bathroom while his bodyguards keep everyone else out.. I'm gonna like the kid. He seems nice.

Can't wait to see this upcoming season play out...
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:44 AM   #11354
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That was a damn good read. Thanks!

Love this line...
"Smith dropped his eyes and scrambled from imaginary pressure, a direct result of poor eye level."
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:47 AM   #11355
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I can’t even fathom this board going full homer if Mahomes scored 21 TD’s in 7 games. It would be literal homer insanity. Yes Watson has some serious health concerns but he deserves credit for what he did last season.

I really don’t get the hate for Watson bc he seems like a good dude. We should want him to succeed.

It’s time for the Manning/Brady/Big Ben rule of the AFC to die a horrible death.
THIS! I do like Watson and I really enjoyed watching his games. Now I did have him on my FF roster so that sucked - PS - my only selection after he went down was...Alex Smith
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