Star Wars: The Old Republic

[keg in kc]

Don't believe there's a dedicated thread, and since they're starting to release information now, I figure it's time for one.

[Hammock Parties]

So much for STO. Wow.

[kcxiv]

I dont think this game is for me. Not quite sure yet, but it seems like a solo player game in an open world.

I like to raid and kill big bad monsters. I was hoping this was going to be something like that, but will wait for more info before i decide if i am going to buy it.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

I dont think this game is for me. Not quite sure yet, but it seems like a solo player game in an open world.

I like to raid and kill big bad monsters. I was hoping this was going to be something like that, but will wait for more info before i decide if i am going to buy it.

I would say "wait and see". They've given us almost zero information about raiding, about PvP/PvE and/or about their endgame philosophy. Any kind of perception about what the game will be at this point is coming from you, rather than from them...

That said, nothing is confirmed, but they have inferred that raiding is in. Although the "big monster" part of "big bad monsters" doesn't really fit the star wars mythos in a general sense, rancor or krayt dragon aside. So I'm not sure I'd ever expect to see anything like Ragnaros in Molten Core. Although maybe you could find yourself fighting something like a spirit of Naga Sadow in a temple on one of Yavin 4's moons. Who knows.

I'd wait and see...

[oaklandhater]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I would say "wait and see". They've given us almost zero information about raiding, about PvP/PvE and/or about their endgame philosophy. Any kind of perception about what the game will be at this point is coming from you, rather than from them...

That said, nothing is confirmed, but they have inferred that raiding is in. Although the "big monster" part of "big bad monsters" doesn't really fit the star wars mythos in a general sense, rancor or krayt dragon aside. So I'm not sure I'd ever expect to see anything like Ragnaros in Molten Core. Although maybe you could find yourself fighting something like a spirit of Naga Sadow in a temple on one of Yavin 4's moons. Who knows.

I'd wait and see...

the amount of raid bosses they can make on korriban should be endless also I cant find the article but one of the dev's said some time after e3 that they wanted there raids to be like the Raid on the death star in a New hope.

[Saulbadguy]

I'm really not feeling this game right now. More excited for Final Fantasy 14.

[oaklandhater]

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

I'm really not feeling this game right now. More excited for Final Fantasy 14.

Asian MMO grind no thank you.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by oaklandhater

the amount of raid bosses they can make on korriban should be endless also I cant find the article but one of the dev's said some time after e3 that they wanted there raids to be like the Raid on the death star in a New hope.

Yeah, as I understand it, at least some members of the TOR team believe that the current raid philosophy is backwards, that many people attacking a single boss is not "heroic" at all, that the bosses are actually the 'hero' philosophically-speaking in that situation, and that raids should really be the players facing insurmountable odds like, as you mention, Han, Luke and Obi Wan rescuing Leia.

We'll see what they come up with. One of the raid skirmishes in LotRO that I played this weekend is called "Survival in the Barrow Downs" and it's basically unending waves of undead attacking until they finally kill you. I really hope they're not heading toward something like that. If they can find a creative way to re-create that Death Star sequence to where it's not "raid group fights enemies non-stop for 60 minutes", it could be good. Fighting wave after wave of enemies gets old very quickly.

Either way, as I mentioned, they really haven't shown anything at this point. All our speculation is built out of snippets from interviews and articles.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

I'm really not feeling this game right now. More excited for Final Fantasy 14.

Well, enjoy being ghey then...

[Hammock Parties]

Keg, can you turn off the autoplay on that video you posted?

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Keg, can you turn off the autoplay on that video you posted?

Post 176?

Wish I could. That's beyond my technical skills, unfortunately. I'll see if I can't find a youtube link to replace it.

[keg in kc]

Hey clay, you have a quote with an autoplay vid in it, post #34. I changed the original (going back through the thread and fixing them all - looks like the direct links from bioware autoplay).

[keg in kc]

There may be some significant info coming out tomorrow morning:

Originally Posted by SeanDahlberg

Star Wars: The Old Republic participated in the EA UK Press Event in London over these last few days. Starting 9am UTC/GMT tomorrow [That's 2am PDT, 4am CDT, 5am EDT], the embargo on this event will be lifted and you'll begin to see various updates across the web pertaining to this.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Yeah, as I understand it, at least some members of the TOR team believe that the current raid philosophy is backwards, that many people attacking a single boss is not "heroic" at all, that the bosses are actually the 'hero' philosophically-speaking in that situation, and that raids should really be the players facing insurmountable odds like, as you mention, Han, Luke and Obi Wan rescuing Leia.

We'll see what they come up with. One of the raid skirmishes in LotRO that I played this weekend is called "Survival in the Barrow Downs" and it's basically unending waves of undead attacking until they finally kill you. I really hope they're not heading toward something like that. If they can find a creative way to re-create that Death Star sequence to where it's not "raid group fights enemies non-stop for 60 minutes", it could be good. Fighting wave after wave of enemies gets old very quickly.

Either way, as I mentioned, they really haven't shown anything at this point. All our speculation is built out of snippets from interviews and articles.

I don't know, figuring out patterns and bringing down the big bad boys in WoW was incredibly fun. Towards the end of my playing time, to bring anything worthwhile down in the end game took immaculate team work and felt pretty rewarding. WoW raid bosses felt epic and I hope the KOTOR end game has something similar. Going into an instance situation by yourself sounds really ****ing awesome too, but they should def. have some huge bosses with epic loot in the end.

[Hays]

I hope this game is good, i need a new mmorpg.
Daoc is the last game i played for years.
WoW just got boring
SWG i liked until they redid it and now its crap
I tried numerous others but they just don't have the appeal

I just doomed this game with what i hope it becomes

[keg in kc]

All kinds of new information is starting to leak out today. They've confirmed the first non-human playable race (Rikkitaki) and that each of the 8 core classes will have two subclasses (first two announced are Sith Warrior subclasses Juggarnaut and Marauder). Hands on demo this time was Bounty Hunter:

Star Wars: The Old Republic Hands On

MMO PC Hands On by Jon Blyth
Today 09:00

I've read a number of previews of Star Wars: The Old Republic. It'd be hard not to - people have been writing about it for over a year. Not to mention, I sat in a room at 2009's E3 and voted to kill some captain or other. But until yesterday, I still had no strong mental image of what the game would play like. That's not the fault of the writers - it's the fact that the particulars of what BioWare is doing are still in flux, and the developers refuse to talk about anything that's still in flux. Remember that sentence, you'll be hearing more of it later!

The basic recap facts have been worn into my brain, but let's dutifully go through it again: The Old Republic is a fully-voiced, story-led MMO, with eight classes, shocking amounts (fifty novels' worth) of dialogue, and BioWare's trademark branching moral storyline, with consequences that come snapping at your buttocks long after you've forgotten what you've done. Actually, I'm still expecting a slap for killing that captain.

Oh hang on, let me just correct a mistake. There are 16 classes - but we'll come to that later. See, I can prick-tease too.

At EA's showcase yesterday, the first thing that happened was a hands-on of a new class. We were each given a level six bounty hunter, and dropped into a Cantina in front of a quest-giving Hutt. Then, we explored the industrious swamp town of Jiguuna, and a hostile Evocii village.

The Evocii are proud warrior types - they're only hostile because Rikkitaki like us tend to be bounty hunters, bounty hunters work for Nem'ro The Hutt, and Nem'ro tends to send bounty hunters to kill them. Nem'ro's personality is best illustrated by his idle animation - he coughs into his palm, and licks whatever came out.

Worth mentioning at this stage - this is the first non-human playable race. When I ask about others, I'm given an entertainingly evasive answer that they'd only be using humanoid races because love scenes get weird with blobs. If we ever do make contact with lovely blue tit and dick creatures, I can't help but suspect BioWare will be catapulting themselves naked into space.

Our first errand involves killing Huttsbane, the aggressively named hero of a nearby Evocii village. It was my job to fetch his de-bodied head, but he wouldn't acknowledge my presence until I'd killed four of his Evocii Guardians. Not Scouts or Watchers, although they do look similar - Guardians. It's somehow reassuring to note that the adjectival pedantry of MMO kill quests has survived into TOR.

This gave me a chance to try out the six attacks that every low-level Bounty Hunter will have. It's a ranged class, with a weapon use that isn't limited by rage, mana, or energy - the Bounty Hunter has to deal with heat.

Decent attacks - the knockdown area-of-effect Missile Blast, and channelled Flame Thrower - all accumulate heat, and once your guage is full, you're stuck with phaser fire and the longer cooldown attacks like the paralysing Electro Dart, and the hugely damaging, but conditional Rail Shot. (To fire the rail shot, your target must be stunned, sleeping, or on fire). Our final move is the desperate Vent Heat, which can cool you down once a minute, and give you a chance to deal some heavy damage again.

The mobs aren't challenging - if you've read anything about TOR, you'll be aware that Lucasarts and BioWare's interpretation of heroism is to allow you to fight multiple regular mobs with only one eye to your HP. But once I do confront Huttsbane, I'm given the option to not fight, and take the head of another Evocii in his place. Bounty Hunters have three role-playing options - efficient, merciless, and sympathetic - and just like Mass Effect, the soppier options are delivered with in-character cynicism.

Role-playing doesn't affect your faction, of course. Both factions might have the light and dark path, but there were many thousands of decent German soldiers in the 1940s. That doesn't mean they fought for England.

The ranged nature of the Bounty Hunter means I don't get to experience the connection of light sabres, or use cover - in fact, my pale-faced Rikkitaki mercenary is disappointingly familiar. The second quest, however, brings a smile to my face. It's another head-collecting quest, only this time I won't be given the option to take the wrong head, because I've got to deliver it to his wife. Nice.

OK, about those sixteen classes? I'm ushered into a corner with Daniel Erickson, the Lead Writer and Designer on TOR, and told that I can know something special and new: each one of the eight classes will branch into two specialised classes. It's a classic BioWare device, and in this case, it spares them from having to write 16 epic class stories, as the Advanced Classes will share their narrative. Anyway, at some point, a Sith Warrior will get the choice - does he want to become a Juggernaut, or a Marauder? In MMO language: a tank, or hardcore damage-dealer?

And that's just the beginning of your specialisation - this is also World of Warcraft's level 10 Talent Point moment, where you start your journey down those three skill trees you can never completely fill. It's as big and complex as two distinct classes. It's the beginning of your uniquely tweaked character.

And it's now that I must, with regret, refer you back to the first paragraph. It was on the last page, so I'll write it again, to spare Eurogamer from suffering two free page impressions - "BioWare don't like to talk about anything that's still in flux". These are the questions I asked that are met with a good-natured lack of information:

What will other classes advance into? (We're not currently saying)

How exactly will these skill trees refine the Tank and DPS roles? (We're not currently saying) Is it like, erm, a Paladin? (A bit like that)

When will you get to make the decision? (It's changed a few times, it's not fixed yet)

Given that these branches share a class storyline, will you be able to respec? (Maybe, we're trying to distinguish gameplay from story decisions - you should have to live with your story decisions)

Do you understand how nut-chafing this drip-feed of information can be? (We don't like talking about things that are still in flux)

Something that's always bothered me about The Old Republic write-ups, and something that's been brought up by previous Eurogamer hands-ons, has been the idea of what you do when you're not fighting. Devoid of other players, and with a skeleton crew of NPCs, the world seems sparse. I know this will be fleshed out, but it's still a worry: How will you fill the hundreds of hours that MMOs are expected to fill? Where's my cooking and fishing?

The answer is equally evasive, but upbeat. There's enough content to fill those hours, I'm told. You won't have the time in a single lifetime to discover all the content. Between the two factions, there are no recycled NPCs. It's Knights of the Old Republic 3 to infinity. If you printed out the script and it rained, the Earth would be covered in papier mache. Is big game.

This is, according to Erickson, the result of a brain experiment where they're trying to recreate the game that they imagined when someone first described MMOs to them. And that's exactly it. That is the lost feeling I've had when reading these previews. I find myself filling in the gaps in the official information with the hope I had when I first installed Anarchy Online. All this vagueness leads to hope. And hope is hardly renowned for its realism.

One thing we can be sure of, though: BioWare's simple commitment to story and meaningful decisions trumps its desire to make an easily described MMO. Having mapped out the nightmare logic of Mass Effect's chapter-spanning decisions, and The Old Republic's eight epic class storylines, this commitment must feel like marrying a serial killer. Sure, it's simple to honour your vows, but it's not always easy. Let's just hope it's fun.