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Old 03-09-2017, 11:23 AM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Paul Ryan is a superstar

He's giving a good presentation on GOP efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare right now. It's amazing that there are members of the House (notably members of the freedom caucus) who don't understand the Senate concept of reconciliation. The freedom caucus, Rand "grandstand" Paul, and the most moderate senators had better not screw this up. Donald Trump needs to be prepared to hold their feet to the fire.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:22 PM   #91
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Ok, there's one guy's testimony worth of reason. There was no obstruction on executive branch appointments though so that seems to work against Voinovich's testimony. I stand corrected though.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:24 PM   #92
WilliamTheIrish WilliamTheIrish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth View Post
Paul Ryan said that insurance cannot work if healthy people have to pay more to subsidize the sick.


The idiot doesn't even understand how insurance works.

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Old 03-09-2017, 06:27 PM   #93
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by Chief Pagan View Post
So for a single person in their 50's making $1,500 month ($18,000/year), how much of that do you think it reasonable that they spend on health care a month?

At what point would you say it is their choice to be uninsured and at what point do you say they can't get insurance because it is unaffordable?
If insurance is unaffordable, then our focus should be on fixing that, not on transfer programs to help an increasing segment of our population pay higher and higher costs. That just fuels the inflationary fire.

For those who fall behind the going price point, our culture dictates that we need to provide a basic safety net (Medicaid), but the top priority needs to be on making healthcare affordable, whether that means more or less government involvement. Obamacare punted on affordability and focused on universal coverage instead, which was easier, but in the long run counterproductive.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:46 PM   #94
Chief Pagan Chief Pagan is offline
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I agree that fixing the cost of insurance should be a priority and Obamacare didn't tackle that. Neither does the R plan.

But even if Congress could take on the Health Care industry and squeeze costs, I don't think it is reasonable to think that health care cost can drop to the point where somebody making not much more than minimum wage could afford it without help.

One reason (not the only one, mind you) costs have gone up is because we can do so much more. From hip replacements, to organ transplant, to "routine" heart surgery. (This is a good thing!) You aren't going to be able to provide that to people in their 50's for a couple of hundred dollars a month.

Worker productivity has been trending upward for decades but wages adjusted for inflation is now flat or falling. This society is wealthy enough to provide basic care for all its citizens. All of its citizens do not make enough to pay the market rate themselves.

Huge tax for the rich isn't the way to do it.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:12 PM   #95
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Pagan View Post
I agree that fixing the cost of insurance should be a priority and Obamacare didn't tackle that. Neither does the R plan.
You actually call for prices to be "fixed?" That's price controls right out of Marx's Communist Manifesto. When did that ever work? It didn't work in the Soviet Union and it will not work now.

Quote:
But even if Congress could take on the Health Care industry and squeeze costs, I don't think it is reasonable to think that health care cost can drop to the point where somebody making not much more than minimum wage could afford it without help.
That's not what fiscal conservatives actually mean when they talk about aiding costs with market mechanisms like competition as opposed to outright fixing costs.

Quote:
One reason (not the only one, mind you) costs have gone up is because we can do so much more. From hip replacements, to organ transplant, to "routine" heart surgery. (This is a good thing!) You aren't going to be able to provide that to people in their 50's for a couple of hundred dollars a month.
Actually that has made many procedures more affordable, relegating some of them to outpatient services. We have so much more technology that is far less invasive, uses a tiny incision and people can leave the hospitals much sooner. Most of it courtesy from what remains as free-market capitalism in this country. Such tech advances will decline if you literally "fix" prices. The Soviets had crap healthcare. Europe has used a lot of old tech. Well, at least when I was there this was the case. Had to stay in the hospital longer for what is an outpatient procedure here.


Quote:
Worker productivity has been trending upward for decades but wages adjusted for inflation is now flat or falling. This society is wealthy enough to provide basic care for all its citizens. All of its citizens do not make enough to pay the market rate themselves.
Normally, outside of govt intervention in markets, worker productivity causes a decline in prices. We are not "wealthy enough provide basic care for all its citizens. " Doing that requires a much higher tax rate, which takes more money out of the economy for businesses and jobs to be created. If health insurance is too expensive, the left has little problem passing the expensive costs onto others as the ACA did.

You're injecting a moral argument based on sympathy though and much opinion over economic realities. This is not an economic argument. Sympathy isn't going to help the problem.

Quote:
Huge tax for the rich isn't the way to do it.
Nor is what you want to do. The ONLY thing that would help rising costs is repealing every mandate and getting the govt out of the health markets altogether except for fraud and enforcing contracts. You're asking for too much from govt. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING they have promised to be more affordable, how much a new safety net will cost has ever come to fruition. Just take one look at each of them and our national debt. You are arguing for socialism—an OLD idea that has failed. Time for something entirely new. Freedom actually works. Not a post about entitlement mentality.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:27 PM   #96
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Pagan View Post
I agree that fixing the cost of insurance should be a priority and Obamacare didn't tackle that. Neither does the R plan.

But even if Congress could take on the Health Care industry and squeeze costs, I don't think it is reasonable to think that health care cost can drop to the point where somebody making not much more than minimum wage could afford it without help.

One reason (not the only one, mind you) costs have gone up is because we can do so much more. From hip replacements, to organ transplant, to "routine" heart surgery. (This is a good thing!) You aren't going to be able to provide that to people in their 50's for a couple of hundred dollars a month.

Worker productivity has been trending upward for decades but wages adjusted for inflation is now flat or falling. This society is wealthy enough to provide basic care for all its citizens. All of its citizens do not make enough to pay the market rate themselves.

Huge tax for the rich isn't the way to do it.
You cannot "fix the cost of insurance". Thats stupid. Insurance cost is relative to risk of a claim. Get real.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:29 PM   #97
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I like the push back from all sides and hope it creates the best bill possible for everyone.
that's exactly what the founders intended and it was the way it was in the "old days"...

political rivals were often great friends and treated each other with respect...

nowadays? no so much...
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:30 PM   #98
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
You cannot "fix the cost of insurance". Thats stupid. Insurance cost is relative to risk of a claim. Get real.
Well put and much simpler said too.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:33 PM   #99
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
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I don't like the plan because the federal government is involved with healthcare again. They need to completely be out of it other than restricting costs and allowing people to go across state lines for insurance and preventing insurance companies to dump high risk patients etc.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:47 PM   #100
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I'll wait to see how the CBO grades it and how the pubs are going to pay for it.

I have a bad feeling it won't be any better than the shit program now in place.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:58 PM   #101
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think you're confusing McConnell circa October 2010 with McConnell at the beginning of the Obama administration. There's no reason to believe that McConnell wasn't open to working with the White House, but if Obama ever actually tried to invite collaboration and compromise, he did such a poor job of it that no one recognized it. He was clear about who won (the presidential election) though.
Sometimes you say things that are crazier than anything Taco, pete or BEP puts out.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:04 PM   #102
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
I don't like the plan because the federal government is involved with healthcare again. They need to completely be out of it other than restricting costs and allowing people to go across state lines for insurance and preventing insurance companies to dump high risk patients etc.

Other than telling companies what they can charge who they have to serve, the govt has no business being involved. JFC...
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:10 PM   #103
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Im amazed at the dems as this process moves forward. They are the huge proponents of Government health care at any cost. Obama Care is a disaster and unless it is fixed it will totally crash and we will have nothing. Yet they will bitch and moan over any changes that are made and dis absolutely zero to amend or fix to repair ObamaCare. The entire thisng should never have been put in place to begin with. But Dems need to recognize once again, they create a pile of shit and the R's somehow have to come clean it uo while they whimper by the side of the road.
Nonsense. If the Republicans actually wanted to fix or repair Obamacare the Dems would have been all for it. They voted 60 times to get rid of it but yeah the Republicans really wanted to fix Obamacare. jfc...
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:18 PM   #104
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:25 PM   #105
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Nonsense. If the Republicans actually wanted to fix or repair Obamacare the Dems would have been all for it. They voted 60 times to get rid of it but yeah the Republicans really wanted to fix Obamacare. jfc...
Dems are engaged...right? **** you cannot be this stupid.
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