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Old 03-09-2017, 11:23 AM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Paul Ryan is a superstar

He's giving a good presentation on GOP efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare right now. It's amazing that there are members of the House (notably members of the freedom caucus) who don't understand the Senate concept of reconciliation. The freedom caucus, Rand "grandstand" Paul, and the most moderate senators had better not screw this up. Donald Trump needs to be prepared to hold their feet to the fire.
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Old 03-09-2017, 03:02 PM   #76
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I want to see them work on it and get the sound bite bitching moved back into a conference room and behave like adults.
So speaking with specific points of criticism is not behaving like an adult now? It's good news that there is growing opposition to it now. In fact, Rand has introduced an alternative bill, which is the same bill enacted in the last congress. Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) has introduced the legislation in the House. Even Cotton, a NeoCon favorite, is saying that that "his House colleagues should be focused on getting healthcare reform 'right,' not 'fast'." Posted on twitter.

One hang-up I can see as legit, from both sides is states that accepted the Medicaid expansion previously that are in moderate states. They were fools for doing that, imo. Now they're trapped by it. But it may be something the others will have to compromise on.


http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...al-alternative
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Old 03-09-2017, 04:56 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So speaking with specific points of criticism is not behaving like an adult now? It's good news that there is growing opposition to it now. In fact, Rand has introduced an alternative bill, which is the same bill enacted in the last congress. Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) has introduced the legislation in the House. Even Cotton, a NeoCon favorite, is saying that that "his House colleagues should be focused on getting healthcare reform 'right,' not 'fast'." Posted on twitter.

One hang-up I can see as legit, from both sides is states that accepted the Medicaid expansion previously that are in moderate states. They were fools for doing that, imo. Now they're trapped by it. But it may be something the others will have to compromise on.


http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...al-alternative
Without looking them up, do you know what Rand Paul's, or Jim Jordan's, or Tom Cotton's specific criticisms are?
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:07 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Without looking them up, do you know what Rand Paul's, or Jim Jordan's, or Tom Cotton's specific criticisms are?
Funny you would ask. Last night was the first time I've ever listened to Alex Jones. It was a interview with Rand Paul on the ACA.

https://youtu.be/UxlCe3mUtJY
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:22 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Im amazed at the dems as this process moves forward. They are the huge proponents of Government health care at any cost. Obama Care is a disaster and unless it is fixed it will totally crash and we will have nothing. Yet they will bitch and moan over any changes that are made and dis absolutely zero to amend or fix to repair ObamaCare. The entire thisng should never have been put in place to begin with. But Dems need to recognize once again, they create a pile of shit and the R's somehow have to come clean it uo while they whimper by the side of the road.
Are you serious with this or trolling? Or maybe just frustrated with what it takes to get legislation through congress? But I'll entertain the point:

Dems got zero support from R's when they tried to pass healthcare. And saying Dem's didn't reach out to R's is a bogus point. Any R that supported health care legislation was going to lose their next primary (and that is after they would have been tarred and feathered, if they weren't in a witness protection program).

For 7 years R's have had vote after vote for a full repeal. They didn't offer legislation to reduce drug prices, or increase competition. Just full repeal. They used healthcare as a sledge hammer to bludgeon Dems for 7 years.

Now, that the dog has finally caught the bus, you think Dems are going to vote to give corporations and wealthy individuals a $300 billion tax cut:

•Eliminating, at cost of $158 billion, the ACA provision that imposed a 3.8% tax on net investment income of individuals earning more than $200,000 and couples more than $250,000
•Repealing the annual fee on health insurance providers, costing $145 billion


At the same time increasing the number of uninsured by many millions?

Why in the hell would Dems give R's cover to do that?

I fell sorry for those that will be negatively affected by TrumpCare. But I'm looking forward to R's owning it.
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:24 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Chief Pagan View Post
Are you serious with this or trolling? Or maybe just frustrated with what it takes to get legislation through congress? But I'll entertain the point:

Dems got zero support from R's when they tried to pass healthcare. And saying Dem's didn't reach out to R's is a bogus point. Any R that supported health care legislation was going to lose their next primary (and that is after they would have been tarred and feathered, if they weren't in a witness protection program).
Obama pushed Republicans away with his my way or the highway attitude. Sure he was willing to compromise, as long as he was able to negotiate for both sides himself.
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:28 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Chief Pagan View Post
At the same time increasing the number of uninsured by many millions?

Why in the hell would Dems give R's cover to do that?

I fell sorry for those that will be negatively affected by TrumpCare. But I'm looking forward to R's owning it.
If something like the current House plan passes, there won't be any uninsured who don't choose to be uninsured.

The reason democrats should engage in this effort is to make amends for their failure with Obamacare and the damage they've already done.
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:48 PM   #82
Anyong Bluth Anyong Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If something like the current House plan passes, there won't be any uninsured who don't choose to be uninsured.

The reason democrats should engage in this effort is to make amends for their failure with Obamacare and the damage they've already done.
Why didn't you say that 7 years ago.

Truth is that it was a bullshit lie to play politics over enacting legislation.
Democrats weren't willing to compromise, you say? Bullshit. They started out with using the Heritage Foundation's proposal from the 90's that was tweaked and enacted by a Republican Governor - Mitt Romney.

McConnell made obstruction priority 1 before Obama was sworn in. If Obama supported legislation that Republicans had proposed in the past, they were against it simply because Obama now supported it.
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:52 PM   #83
Anyong Bluth Anyong Bluth is offline
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Paul Ryan said that insurance cannot work if healthy people have to pay more to subsidize the sick.


The idiot doesn't even understand how insurance works.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Paul...&bih=560&dpr=4
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:12 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth View Post
Why didn't you say that 7 years ago.

Truth is that it was a bullshit lie to play politics over enacting legislation.
Democrats weren't willing to compromise, you say? Bullshit. They started out with using the Heritage Foundation's proposal from the 90's that was tweaked and enacted by a Republican Governor - Mitt Romney.

McConnell made obstruction priority 1 before Obama was sworn in. If Obama supported legislation that Republicans had proposed in the past, they were against it simply because Obama now supported it.
I think you're confusing McConnell circa October 2010 with McConnell at the beginning of the Obama administration. There's no reason to believe that McConnell wasn't open to working with the White House, but if Obama ever actually tried to invite collaboration and compromise, he did such a poor job of it that no one recognized it. He was clear about who won (the presidential election) though.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:16 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth View Post
Paul Ryan said that insurance cannot work if healthy people have to pay more to subsidize the sick.


The idiot doesn't even understand how insurance works.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Paul...&bih=560&dpr=4
Sure he doesn't. What did he actually say?
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:16 PM   #86
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trumpy should issue an EO mandating Congress's health care coverage be whatever they come up with to repeal/replace the ACA.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:17 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Obama pushed Republicans away with his my way or the highway attitude. Sure he was willing to compromise, as long as he was able to negotiate for both sides himself.
Do you really believe a R could have voted for ObamaCare and won re-election?

Or more specifically, what type of health care plan could have won even one vote from "this could break Obama" Republicans?
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:17 PM   #88
Anyong Bluth Anyong Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think you're confusing McConnell circa October 2010 with McConnell at the beginning of the Obama administration. There's no reason to believe that McConnell wasn't open to working with the White House, but if Obama ever actually tried to invite collaboration and compromise, he did such a poor job of it that no one recognized it. He was clear about who won (the presidential election) though.
Nope.
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It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.” The excerpt includes a special bonus nugget of Mitt Romney dissing the Tea Party.
http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23...bstruct-obama/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/1/2...anuary-20-2009

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1452899

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.8b605227405a
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:18 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP View Post
trumpy should issue an EO mandating Congress's health care coverage be whatever they come up with to repeal/replace the ACA.
The president has a lot of power, but that's something he can't do. Not a bad idea though. Republicans should embrace the concept and put that in the replacement law.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:22 PM   #90
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If something like the current House plan passes, there won't be any uninsured who don't choose to be uninsured.

The reason democrats should engage in this effort is to make amends for their failure with Obamacare and the damage they've already done.
So for a single person in their 50's making $1,500 month ($18,000/year), how much of that do you think it reasonable that they spend on health care a month?

At what point would you say it is their choice to be uninsured and at what point do you say they can't get insurance because it is unaffordable?
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