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Old 02-05-2017, 12:19 PM  
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Global warming: Daily Mail: How world leaders were duped into investing billions...

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Exposed: How world leaders were duped into investing billions over manipulated global warming data

The Mail on Sunday today reveals astonishing evidence that the organisation that is the world’s leading source of climate data rushed to publish a landmark paper that exaggerated global warming and was timed to influence the historic Paris Agreement on climate change.

A high-level whistleblower has told this newspaper that America’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) breached its own rules on scientific integrity when it published the sensational but flawed report, aimed at making the maximum possible impact on world leaders including Barack Obama and David Cameron at the UN climate conference in Paris in 2015....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ampaign=buffer


Much more at the link
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:36 AM   #16
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The "Whistleblower" in the article has now made a statement denying any data fraud. This is why I encourage folks to listen to the scientists, not politicians.

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The federal climate scientist hailed by conservatives as a whistleblower for allegedly revealing manipulated global warming data said yesterday he was actually calling out a former colleague for not properly following agency standards for research.

In an interview with E&E News yesterday, former National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration principal scientist John Bates had a significantly more nuanced take on the controversy that has swirled since a top House Republican hailed his blog post as proof that the agency "played fast and loose" with temperature data to disprove the theory of a global warming "pause."

Bates accused former colleagues of rushing their research to publication, in defiance of agency protocol. He specified that he did not believe that they manipulated the data upon which the research relied in any way.

"The issue here is not an issue of tampering with data, but rather really of timing of a release of a paper that had not properly disclosed everything it was,"
he said.

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060049630
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:40 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
No, it wasn't shown that they fabricated anything. That was not true, and several followup studies have confirmed the results. And in fact, their data adjustments actually lowered the rate of warming. The data would actually show more warming without the adjustments.

Please refer to any of the following links. They each explain it well, and have lots of sources for further information.

Global warming trend unaffected by 'fiddling' with temperature data

Nothing False About Temperature Data

No climate conspiracy: NOAA temperature adjustments bring data closer to pristine
Yes it was
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:42 AM   #18
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Some additional responses to this, from the publishing journal, a retired Republican House Science Committee member, a Navy rear admiral and once COO of NOAA, another former NOAA chief, and a former NASA-GISS chief:

Jeremy Berg, Editor of Science:

With regard to the “rush” to publish, as of 2013, the median time from submission to online publication by Science was 109 days, or less than four months. The article by Karl et al. underwent handling and review for almost six months. Any suggestion that the review of this paper was “rushed” is baseless and without merit. Science stands behind its handling of this paper, which underwent particularly rigorous peer review.

Sherwood Boehlert, Republican Chair of House Science Committee 2001-2007

Those trying to debunk these studies seem to be grasping at straws and resorting to personal attacks. If they have evidence that these studies are wrong then it should be submitted to the appropriate journals and peer reviewed. Nothing they've pointed to so far seems to hold up. The current attacks should be received with extreme skepticism , given the enormous body of evidence supporting the conclusion that the climate is changing and poses a danger that needs to be addressed. And public officials have an obligation to follow the scientific consensus unless more credible critiques emerge.

Rt. Rear Admiral David Titley, former NOAA chief operating officer:

In summary, the Mail on Sunday has found a disgruntled ex-NOAA employee and is using him to construct alternative facts about the climate. Unfortunately for all of us, the air will keep warming, the seas will keep rising, and the ice will keep melting, regardless of the Daily Mail's fanciful claims and accusations. The real atmosphere is impervious to alternative facts.

There is both a NOAA internal process on scientific integrity (my office ran it when I was at NOAA) and the opportunity to submit allegations of wrongdoing to the Department of Commerce Inspector General who, if there is reasonable evidence to substantiate the allegation, would undertake an independent investigation.

Is the science bad? No. Karl et. al. was published in a high-prestige, peer-reviewed journal, where the reviewers were almost certainly eminent scientists external to NCEI and NOAA. More importantly, the Berkley group (originally founded to disprove the NOAA and NASA temperature recorded but ended up confirming their validity) as well as other external organizations, such as the UK Met Office, have all subsequently INDEPENDENTLY replicated the Karl et. al. results. That's the gold standard of science, not some NOAA internal bureaucratic procedure that may or may not have been followed.

Is the earth continuing to warm? Yes

While the arguments about ARGO floats vs. WWII shipping sea water injection temperatures vs. Satellite SST's are fascinating to the dozens of scientists who care about such things, our knowledge of global warming and climate change is built on overwhelming, independent lines of observational evident, understanding of the basic physics that goes back to the mid 19th century, and our ability to accurately project the overall global warming in computer models for over 40 years. Nothing in the Daily Mail article refutes any of this evidence.

Jane Lubchenco, former NOAA administrator:

These are sad, old accusations that have been definitively disproven. The accusations are a blatant attempt to sow confusion and doubt with the goal of distracting folks and undermining the global momentum to reduce carbon emissions. Reduction of emissions is paramount if we are to avoid even more serious climate disruption that would bring disastrous consequences for our health, economies and communities. Children and the poor stand to suffer the most.

Definitive studies by other authors have independently and conclusively verified Karl et al.’s findings. I know that NOAA has robust scientific checks and balances. Its scientists are widely recognized as outstanding and its high standards and procedures ensure that its products are rigorous and of the highest quality. Moreover, there is a refreshing openness to multiple points of view and possible interpretations, but in the end, conclusions are based on data, rigorous analysis, and are subject to peer-review.

Karl’s paper was peer-reviewed. And it has now been independently demonstrated by other scientists to be correct. Good science stands the test of time. The scientific process is all about challenging, testing and either validating or revamping earlier conclusions. Karl et al.’s earlier conclusions have been challenged, tested, and verified. They are robust. Time to move on.

We know from thousands of studies that the climate is changing, humans are largely responsible for the changes, the changes are already wreaking havoc with many extreme weather events, and that many of those events (e.g., heat waves or flooding) have very real consequences for human life, the economy and our communities. Fortunately, local communities, states, businesses and national governments are taking action and making headway. Many businesses and governments understand the economic opportunities that are already being realized from renewable energy and conservation efforts. Now is the time to accelerate those efforts, not be sidetracked by trumped-up false controversies.

James Hansen, former Director of NASA-GISS:

This is another case of making a mountain out of an anthill, while not telling the public that it is an anthill.
The misimpression, that there might be a substantial flaw in climate change analyses, was predictable and surely was realized and even encouraged by those who brought forth this attack. The only censure should be on the heads of those who pretend that there is some significant new revelation and those who aid in the promulgation of this falsehood.

Tom Karl is an outstanding, hard-working, honest scientist.

More info: http://climatenexus.org/messaging-co...d-tabloid-spin
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:45 AM   #19
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Measuring in the environment is a tough proposition - its not a repeatable lab experiment - and measurements were never made for climate. It is important that we continue to strive for better understanding and the best possible analyses of the imperfect measurements.
Would you allow that this is a superior message to 'the science is in. Experts are in complete agreement. If you oppose my policy initiatives, I have to ask; why do you hate science?'
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:45 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
Yes it was
The scientist himself just stated otherwise. Read his quote. Let go of your ignorance.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Would you allow that this is a superior message to 'the science is in, if you oppose my policy initiatives, I have to ask. Why do you hate science?'
What policy initiatives are you talking about? Who are you quoting?
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:47 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
The scientist himself just stated otherwise. Read his quote. Let go of your ignorance.
No he didn't
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:47 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
What policy initiatives are you talking about? Who are you quoting?
Are you really going full Donger?

Fine, you want détente? Fully commit to not seeking federal policies seeking to alter market driven energy consumption habits, and I'll fully commit to acknowledging the seriousness and value of climate research.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:49 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Are you really going full Donger?
Sorry, I honestly have no clue who you're talking about with that quote.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:50 AM   #25
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No he didn't
OK
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:54 AM   #26
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Sorry, I honestly have no clue who you're talking about with that quote.
I clearly said it was a message, not a direct quote.

Are you denying that it was an accurate summation of widespread messaging on the issue?

I get it, Fish. You fancy yourself good cop in the good cop/bad cop strategy on climate change.

'Hey, I just care about respect for the science. I'm not pushing policy.'

Aside - [pssst. OK, I got them to respect the science, now hammer them with the policy]
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
I clearly said it was a message, not a direct quote.

Are you denying that it was an accurate summation of widespread messaging on the issue?

I get it, Fish. You fancy yourself good cop in the good cop/bad cop strategy on climate change.

'Hey, I just care about respect for the science. I'm not pushing policy.'

Aside - [pssst. OK, I got them to respect the science, now hammer them with the policy]
WTF are you even talking about? Hammer them with the policy? I've never proposed any type of policy. I have no clue where you got that from. I'm just trying to correct the misunderstanding about NOAA data. Calm down.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:10 AM   #28
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WTF are you even talking about? Hammer them with the policy? I've never proposed any type of policy. I have no clue where you got that from. I'm just trying to correct the misunderstanding about NOAA data. Calm down.
Honest question, are you COMPLETELY unaware of why politicians push climate change?

You seem to make the case that you are, or are at least indifferent. But the position beggars belief.

Cards on the table, do you accept my offer of détente? One side of the aisle acknowledges the importance of understanding climate, and the other side of the aisle pledges not to seek policies to ameliorate problems you admit are founded on imperfect understanding?
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:14 AM   #29
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Honest question, are you COMPLETELY unaware of why politicians push climate change?

You seem to make the case that you are, or are at least indifferent. But the position beggars belief.

Cards on the table, do you accept my offer of détente?
I understand why politicians on both sides use climate change data the way they do. Which is why I've already stated that folks should listen to the scientists instead of politicians. That applies to both ends of the political spectrum. Climate change fear mongering is just as bad as denial.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:18 AM   #30
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I understand why politicians on both sides use climate change data the way they do. Which is why I've already stated that folks should listen to the scientists instead of politicians. That applies to both ends of the political spectrum. Climate change fear mongering is just as bad as denial.
Problem being, scientists are not content to describing the state of knowledge. They're people too, and they have ideas on political solutions. And at present, they are vocal in espousing those solutions.

If their solutions are so self-evident from the data, they will survive in the marketplace and don't need governmental pressure to realize.
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