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Old 03-17-2014, 05:14 PM  
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Scientists find cosmic ripples from birth of universe

Scientists find cosmic ripples from birth of universe

Published March 17, 2014


Astronomers have discovered what they believe is the first direct evidence of the astonishing expansion of the universe in the instant following the Big Bang -- the scientific explanation for the birth of the universe some 13.8 billion years ago.

Scientists believe that the universe exploded from a tiny speck and hurled itself out in all directions in the fraction of a second that followed, beginning just 10 to the minus 35 seconds (roughly one trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second) after the universe's birth. Matter ultimately coalesced hundreds of millions of years later into planets, stars, and ultimately us.

And like ripples from a ball kicked into a pond, that Big Bang-fueled expansion caused ripples in the ancient light from that event, light which remains imprinted in the skies in a leftover glow called the cosmic microwave background.

Scientists still don’t know who kicked the ball.

But if confirmed, the newfound ripples would be amazing proof of what has long been mere theory about what happened in those first millionths of a second.

“The implications for this detection stagger the mind,” said Jamie Bock, professor of physics at Caltech, laboratory senior research scientist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and project co-leader. “We are measuring a signal that comes from the dawn of time.”

"It would be the most important discovery since the discovery, I think, that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," Harvard astronomer Avi Loeb, who is not a member of the study team, told Space.com. He compared the finding to a 1998 observation that opened the window on mysterious dark energy and won three researchers the 2011 Nobel Prize in physics.

The groundbreaking results came from observations by BICEP2, a telescope at the South Pole, of the cosmic microwave background -- a faint glow left over from the Big Bang.

Beginning a fraction of a fraction of a second after the universe's birth, according to the current theory, space-time expanded incredibly rapidly, ballooning outward faster than the speed of light. The afterglow from that expansion is called the cosmic microwave background, and tiny fluctuations in it provide clues to conditions in the early universe.

For example, small differences in temperature across the sky show where parts of the universe were denser, eventually condensing into galaxies and galactic clusters.

Since the cosmic microwave background is a form of light, it exhibits all the properties of light, including polarization. On Earth, sunlight is scattered by the atmosphere and becomes polarized, which is why polarized sunglasses help reduce glare. In space, the cosmic microwave background was scattered by atoms and electrons and became polarized too.

“Our team hunted for a special type of polarization called ‘B-modes,’ which represents a twisting or ‘curl’ pattern in the polarized orientations of the ancient light,” said Bock.

The team presented their work at a press conference Monda at Harvard -- the discovery of that characteristic pattern of polarization in the skies, which they called proof of the gravitational waves across the primordial sky.

“This work offers new insights into some of our most basic questions: Why do we exist? How did the universe begin? These results are not only a smoking gun for inflation, they also tell us when inflation took place and how powerful the process was,” Harvard theorist Avi Loeb said.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:07 AM   #151
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Okay let's agree to disagree. There has never been nothing. There is no nothing anywhere at any time. It's hard for man to wrap his limited brain around because of how poorly the human mind works. All we know from our very very limited view of the universes is how things work on earth. Beginnings and ends. Therefore this pattern must be cast on the universe.

Just because our minds seek patterns is no reason to assume this pattern is true everywhere. There was something before the Big Bang probably lots of something's. What it was we don't have anything more than speculation because of the limits of our minds and instruments.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:08 AM   #152
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Science will never say, god created the universe, because it can't. Science must stay to what is in the natural world. Once god enters the equation, you're talking faith and believe. I don't for a second think you can't have both, but you'll never come to the scientific conclusion that god created the universe.

And this needs to leave the lounge.
Einstein quote: "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:11 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by SeeingRed View Post
Einstein quote: "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."/A. Einstein
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:11 AM   #154
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I agree almost everything is a miracle, except ticks, **** them. It's a natural miracle, but miraculous none the less.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:13 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I agree almost everything is a miracle, except ticks, **** them. It's a natural miracle, but miraculous none the less.
Whether you believe in God or not, existence is a miracle.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:15 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
the big bang theory does say that our universe, as we know it, all came out of a tiny particle that exploded. So, this tiny particle existed in space and in time, right? Or, it didn't, right? Regardless, out of this tiny particle came all matter and energy, so again, this is a huge problem/issue/question because out of one tiny particle came everything, and the universe is massive. I understand that the scientific community is still trying to figure it all out, especially at the quantum level and at levels that are basically unmeasurable, but that being said, it's still somewhat of a faith based system to believe everything came out of one tiny particle becasue it breaks all the laws of science that these same scientist claim are essential to understanding the universe.
What "laws of science" does this theory break?

Tell me what they are and what theory these laws you speak of are attached to. I think you're pulling that out of your rear.

It's not faith based. It's extrapolation via complex mathematics. I know you think this is some 'gotcha' moment...but it's not. Science doesn't claim to know everything. It creates theories and then attempts to disprove or validate them.

Disprove the big bang if you're so certain astronomers aren't as clever as you.

Last edited by WhiteWhale; 03-19-2014 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:18 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
What "laws of science" does this theory break?

Tell me what they are and what theory these laws you speak of are attached to. I think you're pulling that out of your rear.
the laws of thermodynamics for one.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:19 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Okay let's agree to disagree. There has never been nothing. There is no nothing anywhere at any time. It's hard for man to wrap his limited brain around because of how poorly the human mind works. All we know from our very very limited view of the universes is how things work on earth. Beginnings and ends. Therefore this pattern must be cast on the universe.

Just because our minds seek patterns is no reason to assume this pattern is true everywhere. There was something before the Big Bang probably lots of something's. What it was we don't have anything more than speculation because of the limits of our minds and instruments.
fair enough
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:21 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
the laws of thermodynamics for one.
Oh Jesus ****ing christ...

No... it...doesn't. If it did, the theory wouldn't exist or those laws would have to change. You don't understand the laws of thermodynamics.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:28 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
true, but correct me if I'm wrong, scientific laws are there for a reason, that is, they are provable, varifiable and accepted facts. You cannot create matter from nothing according to scientific laws, that's impossible. However, in order to justify the theory of the big bang, and by proxy the theory of evolution, people like Krauss are resorting to what is little more than a discussion on magic.

My whole involvement in this thread came about because the Dave Lane poster said it's easier to explain the existence of the universe if you take the supernatural out of the equation. But then when you do that how do you explain everything coming out of nothing? It takes a lot of speculation, imagination and pure fiction to explain something coming out of nothing, yet people like Dave Lane say it's easier to do this than say "God created the universe?"

This is called being a hypocrit where I come from.
That's not necessarily true. We've never witnessed matter created from nothing. But some science says it's certainly plausible. Quantum theory says it's possible. Quantum theory says that the Big Bang could have spontaneously emerged from a random quantum fluctuation in an simple quantum vacuum. Which satisfies quantum theory science. So you cannot say that science has no answer. At that point, you have to understand the relationship between quantum theory and relative theory.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:32 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
the big bang theory does say that our universe, as we know it, all came out of a tiny particle that exploded. So, this tiny particle existed in space and in time, right? Or, it didn't, right? Regardless, out of this tiny particle came all matter and energy, so again, this is a huge problem/issue/question because out of one tiny particle came everything, and the universe is massive. I understand that the scientific community is still trying to figure it all out, especially at the quantum level and at levels that are basically unmeasurable, but that being said, it's still somewhat of a faith based system to believe everything came out of one tiny particle becasue it breaks all the laws of science that these same scientist claim are essential to understanding the universe.
No. The "Tiny particle" didn't exist in space and time. That's what you're missing. There was no space or time before that. It didn't exist. The singularity is what created space and time.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:33 AM   #162
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I agree almost everything is a miracle, except ticks, **** them. It's a natural miracle, but miraculous none the less.
I'd fit spiders, mosquitos, wasps, and chiggers in the category of annoying not miraculous.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:38 AM   #163
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That's not necessarily true. We've never witnessed matter created from nothing. But some science says it's certainly plausible. Quantum theory says it's possible. Quantum theory says that the Big Bang could have spontaneously emerged from a random quantum fluctuation in an simple quantum vacuum. Which satisfies quantum theory science. So you cannot say that science has no answer. At that point, you have to understand the relationship between quantum theory and relative theory.
I like the idea of a "white hole."
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:40 AM   #164
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I like the idea of a "white hole."
Racist.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:41 AM   #165
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Racist.
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