What historic event would you like to have witnessed?

[DJJasonp]

Spinoff from the concert thread....

If there was a significant historical event that you could have been at live and in person (with no chance of dying or having any harm befall you) - what would it be?

And to make it interesting, you can witness this event by going back in time, and having all the knowledge you currently have carry with you to that place and time where the event occurred.

This is not a "prevent it from happening" opportunity - just as a witness.


My first thoughts - would have to be the last supper (and days following crucifixion) and the JFK assasination.

What say you?

[Rasputin]

I'd really like to just go back and see how hot Eve was. Naked before she tempted Adam with the fruit.

[Rasputin]

I would have liked to stand behind Leonardo da Vinci as he was painting the Mona Lisa and make faces at the lady subject to get her to laugh and not keep a strait face.

[Aries Walker]

I think the Rain Man hit it right on the head, here. These are the standards to use, to make sure your one big chance doesn't turn out to be a stereotypical disappointing vacation.

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I think there are three critical issues that should be considered strongly in historic event time teleportation. Most have been touched on, but I think we need a post that clearly delineates a policy. When one of us eventually has the opportunity to do so, we want to make the most of it and not waste it. So I hereby present the three guiding philosophical principles of time travel teleportation, along with a third optional but recommended principle.

#1 - The event should actually be something that was not a mundane event at the time.

Some things have great historical important, but by themselves they're rather mundane. For example, if you want to see Jonas Salk cure polio, that's great, but you're going to travel back in time and witness a person getting a vaccination. Is that really the best use of your time travel dollar? Same with most of the Lewis and Clark expedition or crossing on the Mayflower. Unless you're into the details, they're just hiking and sailing.

I agree with Salk (a scientist in a lab), and with the Mayflower (a bunch of demoralized pain-in-the-ass Super-Christian evangelists shacking up with some unfriendly and hardbitten mercenery soldiers on their worst gig ever. Then they land, find some stuff, spy a few Indians which they'll never catch but which will always be out there, and have to suffer through a Game of Thrones winter right away during which half of them die. And the whole time they're praying and invoking and preaching at you that the devil makes you dress like that. All winter. Not awesome.

Lewis and Clark, though, was not just sailing and hiking. Lewis had to welcome all of these Native tribes by handing out trinkets of massive national importants - badges, shoes, a carved stick pretending it's a sceptre, that sort of thing - and he had no idea which Sachem got what. So he made it up, all the while trying to keep up this brilliant speech, and more or less randomly handed these things out, giving the Chiefs random titles. As he stumbled off the stump, wiping his brow with a "Whew, made it", the Chiefs were all looking down at this crap, wondering what it meant to the Great Father back in Washington, and in short order, hundreds of years of tenuous inter-tribal relations were pissed right into the wind by Lewis, who know not a damn thing of what diplomatic hand grenades he was hurling about. Man, I would have loved to see that.

And later: They almost went to war with a band of Sioux who wanted the barrels of whiskey kept below decks; Clark - an over six-foot career military man - was standing on the prow, swinging his saber at the encroaching (drunken) braves while Lewis wheeled around the 1804 equivalent of an assault cannon from the keelboat, ready to let fly the lead.

Even later, there's Lewis, hanging off of a cliff by one thin branch. Numerous encounters with Grizzlies, which these guys have never seen and assumed they were demons. Natives stealing their stuff and running. Desertion and abandonment, punishable by flogging. Meeting Sacagawea and her drunken lout of a husband; when one of the canoes capsized, spilling the diaries into the water, Sacagawea - pregnant at 16 - jumping in to save them. There was the Native reactions to Clark's slave, York, because of his skin color, and Lewis's Newfoundland dog, Seaman. York and Seaman chased a bear a few times. They saw prarie dogs together. Hugh McNeal, one of the men, was attacked, clawed up, and chased up a tree by a Grizzly, and stayed up there for the better part of a day.

They had storms, waterfalls where there weren't supposed to be any. They were being followed by the Spanish and British and probably the French, any of which would have killed them on the spot. They would have been shot dead also by the Nez Perce if it turned out that the chief was Sacagawea's long-lost brother! The Expedition had more than enough fascinating bits to see, it's way up on my list.

In fact, exploration as a general category would be a great start.

Originally Posted by Rain Man

#2 - The event should be something that can be understood.

This is a tough one, but must be said. If you would have no idea what's going on due to language or other issues, then you're going to lose some impact. For example, seeing the signing the Magna Carta would be cool, but most likely it would just be a bunch of people talking gibberish and then the guy with the crown and fur collar signs a document.

Granted that most people wouldn't understand it. (I would, but just because I'm me - the scene of the simpleton king signing the thing needs to have half a dozen glowering, mail-clad, sword-wielding, all-business Dukes and Barons in a semicircle behind him, tell him exactly where to put his mark.) It would be a scene, but it wasn't grandiose and it didn't last long and the room probably smelled, so I'd pass on that one as well.

Originally Posted by Rain Man

#3 - The event should have some sort of mystery or uncertainty to be solved.

This is important. It would be a cool experience to go back to V-E Day in Times Square or see the signing of the Declaration of Independence, but we pretty much know what happened. This is true of many things in the era of videorecording like the moon walks. You don't need to time travel if you can just pop in a video. In some of these events, perhaps a greater value would be finding the stuff that's not documented, such as perhaps the discussions leading up to the signing of the Declaration, or Hitler's bunker the week before V-E Day.

Completely with you on this one. We saw Kennedy say "Ich bin ein Berliner' already; no need to relive it.

Originally Posted by Rain Man

#4 (optional, but recommended). The event should be something that is reasonably pleasant to see.

This is optional, and there may certainly be value in viewing an unpleasant event. But for you people who want to go back and see a biblical character get crucified, I ask, "Really?" That's probably an unpleasant thing to watch. Same with Hiroshima and a whole lot of battles. Rather than watching the battles, which are a bunch of bleeding and screaming and gore, perhaps you should watch the general's tent or other headquarters, which contains the most interesting elements from a historic/mystery standpoing, but also won't ruin your shirt and leave you psychologically scarred.

This is important for me. I appreciate the world-changing gravitas on June 6 on Normandy Beach, but it would be a grisly abbatoir like none other, I should think. Saving Private Ryan was pretty close, but it was non-stop, not cleaned up to tell a narrative, and it went all day, and it was loud and it stunk. I don't really need to live the horror to know what it was. Same goes with 9/11 inside the buildings or the planes, Payne Stewart's death plane, the crucifixion of this guy or the assassination of that, or the explosion of a bomb or eruption of Vesuvius. No, thanks.

I also think there should be one more requirement: The events of the day (or, however long) should not have been predetermined. Of course, we'll know how they end, but the other people there have to not know if their team will win or lose, in whatever form. Otherwise, a plan running through with no hiccups is, well, boring.

And I, personally, would like it to happen in a place where I can understand, if not necessary speak, the language. So that cuts out most of the Eastern world, at least.

To recap: 1: Not mundane; 2: Understandable; 3: A mystery to be solved; 4: Not gruesome (to personal limit); and 5: Unexpected result. I will also add 6: Understandable language, for myself, because I'd like to follow along.

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by srvy

The day my Father and Mother made me. See if there was the gleam.

The instant I was born.

Sermon on the Mount.

The Resurrection.

The Exodus especially the sea parting.

The Gettysburg Address

Picket's Charge and the look on Lee's face when what was left retreated.

Well at least 4 of those happened so you got about 50%. Not sure I wanna see my parents make me or shit me out though.

[eDave]

Moon landing
First Atomic Bomb test
Downtown NY during 9/11
Roswell
Led Zeppelin 02 reunion concert - Historic to me

[Aries Walker]

So, all of that in mind, here's my top . . . however many, not in order.

- The Second Constitutional Congress, taking votes for whether to defy Great Britain and make our own damn country. They were one vote short when Delaware's Caesar Rodney came in, his spurs jingling as he was still in his traveling clothes which were dripping from rain. Rodney was a tall, gaunt, spectral figure who wore a full hat and a green veil to hide the face that he was suffering from terminal face cancer. He had ridden, sick and through a driving rainstorm, from southern Delaware up to Philadelphia, just to make that vote, which he did. He cast the decider, we declared our independence, and he went back to Delaware, where he lived for a few more years before the face cancer claimed him. I would have loved to see that.

- The 1904 St. Louis World's Fair was famous for its food. The Palace of Agriculture was 640,000 square feet in size and 8 stories tall, filled with displays of food from all over the world. Visitors there could see a 17,000 gallon cask of Champagne, lemons weighing 7 pounds each, statues carved of butter, and a larger-than-life-sized elephant made entirely of nuts. H.J. Heinz and Joseph Schlitz, each aware of the food-safety concerns of the day, promoted their new systems of germ-safe bottling to much acclaim. When President Roosevelt and his family visited, they were treated to a two-hour banquet serving Columbian soup, Oyster Bay salad, celery, radishes, grapes, almonds, a Salmon soufflé, Julienne potatoes, beef medallions, risotto (with truffles), and a quail, all washed down by various German beers and wines, with glazed biscuits, coffee, and cigars for dessert. It was also the first time that much of the world experienced cotton candy, hamburgers, hot dogs, peanut butter, iced tea, chili, ice cream cones, and Dr. Pepper. That would have been a meal - or a series of meals - to remember.

- 1000 AD. When Leif Ericson explored the coast of Newfoundland around 1000 AD, one of those accompanying him was his tempestuous half-sister, Freydis Eiriksdottir. During an attack by indigenous Native Americans, the Vikings retreated to a more defensible position, but Freydis - who was pregnant at the time - couldn’t keep up, and continuously berated her kinsmen for running away. With the attackers closing in on her, she picked up a dead man’s sword and turned to face them. Dropping her tunic, she slapped her naked breasts with the sword and screamed challenges, daring them to attack her. Terrified, they ran away. My kind of woman.

- In 1827, Sultan Muhammad Ali of Egypt gifted Charles X of France with a pair of giraffes. The male giraffe died early, but the female - named Zarafa, meaning "lovely one", and source of the word "giraffe" - was shipped from Africa to Marseilles, and then walked up to Paris. As she attracted massive crowds in every town she passed, it was determined that she would cause too much of a riot if she was marched through the capital city during daylight. Sleepy Parisians were therefore surprised in the middle of the night by the sight of Zarafa's head, lazily drifting by their second-story windows in the dead of night, her long purple tongue casually eating the leaves off of Parisian trees. That just sounds cool.

- The image we all know of the sailor kissing the nurse in Times' Square is part of a much larger party. Everyone was out in the streets, drunk and partying as much as they like, and everyone was in the best of moods. The sheer optimism of the day would have made it a great place to see.

- In 1381, Wat Tyler led a bunch of peasants to storm the Tower of London in response to ridiculous taxes. The King at the time, Richard II, was the closest the crown has seen to a real-life Joffrey Baratheon, only without the courage - a teenage simp who spent most of his time being manipulated by his nobles, and too poor-tempered to do anything on his own. So this mob descends on London, kills a few court officials, and the King flees with his retinue back to the Tower. The mob still comes; they cross the bridges and are closing in, when . . . Richard II rides out, alone, to address them. He was a diplomatic nightmare who had done literally nothing of use for his entire reign, and now he gets this bug and meets his people directly. And they listen! They make a demand, he says he'll get it done. They make another, he agrees. End slavery? We can do that! He tells them to go home, get some rest, he'll hammer it out with his people and come back in two days. And when the peasants optimistically come back in two days for diplomatic talks, one of the King's enforcers cuts Wat Tyler in half, they chase the leaderless, confused peasants around for a bit, run them back home, and the rebellion is over. But the fact that this useless worm took initiative and real, limb-tearing risk, and got the job done, was amazing. Of course, he then went right back to being a complete shit, was captured, imprisoned, deposed, and likely assassinated, but I'd like to have seen his one moment.

- The First Thanksgiving. Massasoit and his Wampanoags visiting Bradford and the Mayflower settlers. This was the high water mark for European-Native American relations forever; it was never this good. These men were friends, and their cooperation lasted until their deaths (and the subsequent King Philip's War between their sons). At this point, though, it was two cultures who couldn't have less in common, sharing their lives with each other, children playing, people laughing. It's what Thanksgiving should be.

- Oh, and Super Bowl IV. A perfect day. I'll bring my phone and take selfies with Dawson and Stram and Buck Buchanan.

More if I think of them.

[007]

front and center for the moon landing.

For those saying Superbowl IV I would want to have the results of the game erased from my mind so I could truly enjoy each moment as if it was new.

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by Dayze

I heard the lobster bisque was amazing.

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

They had that there? I suppose if God was there anything was possible.

I'd like to see what their olives and olive oil was like.

He made lobster bisque to feed everyone with only half a crawdad


I don't want to go back and see any part of my parents courtship, to you weirdos who do.

The building of the pyramids likely could've taken 100s of years. But it would be a good choice to see if it was really the aliens.

A biblical event? Many biblical events are just as historically relevant as Homer's Iliad or King Arthur, I mean the only reason we know the Great Wall of china exists is because we can still see it. If it was only pictures in a book, I'd bet there'd be many doubting Thomas'.

So, I guess I'd pick Eve eating the apple. Adam and I are going to do the first Eiffel Tower soon after.

Other than those two, I guess I'd like to see how big the Trojan horse really was, how large the Roman Empire became, the shootout at the OK corral, the births of Hitler, Stalin, Elway and other oppressive leaders (because I assume these visits are interactive), the filming of every major movie production from 1920 to 1970 (including porn), just to name a few.

[Easy 6]

The Kanye and Kim wedding, just imagine being able to say you were THERE...

Talk about one for the history books.

[Graystoke]

When Man first made fire.
Can you imagine?

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by crazycoffey

The building of the pyramids likely could've taken 100s of years. But it would be a good choice to see if it was really the aliens.

The reason that it was my top choice is that it scores high on my guiding principles of time travel.

1. It had scale. It was a big undertaking at the time and likely garnered a lot of attention and effort.

2. It's something I can understand. I certainly couldn't speak the language, but I could watch what's happening and learn all sorts of stuff. Per Aries' revision to my guiding principles, this would get divided into two categories, and the pyramids would only score one.

3. It solves a mystery. It would have taken a long time to build, but I could watch for a day and solve the whole mystery.

4. It would be reasonably pleasant to see. I don't get the impression that this was a particularly cruel or bloody process, and how cool would it be to get watch the Great Pyramid being built?

5. Per Aries' revision to my theory, I like his proposal that the events of the day not be predetermined. The pyramids viewing kind of fails this test, I guess, but a score of 4 out of 5 is still pretty good.

In thinking about it, I would add yet another scoring category, which is tertiary benefits. Aside from seeing the historical event, are there other side benefits that would accrue. For example, in this case it would be really interesting to see how the pharoahs lived and what everyday life was like in ancient Egypt. I wouldn't understand some of it due to language, but mere observation would provide significant reward.

Yet one more scoring category might be personal comfort, but I'm assuming that we're going back in a protected bubble since the rules are that we're safe from harm. So we're not going to get blasted to bits if we go back to the Big Bang or the dinosaur meteor.

[Rain Man]

So I'd like to propose Version 2 of our guiding principles of time travel:

#1 - The event should actually be something that was not a mundane event at the time.
#2 - The event should be something that can be understood on observation.
#3 - The event should be something that can be understood in terms of languages used, where applicable.
#4 - The event should have some sort of mystery or uncertainty to be solved.
#5 - The event should be something that is within personal limits of pleasantry to gruesomeness.
#6 - The event should involve some element of unpredictability or decision point.
#7 - The event should involve some tertiary benefits or learning beyond the observation of the main event.

An event could be worthwhile without meeting all of these goals, but an event that meets more of these goals shall be considered a more worthy event for time travel. It would be fun to evaluate the suggestions so far under these criteria to determine which trip we would fund if we were the time travel committee.

[ptlyon]

Originally Posted by Graystoke

When Man first made fire.
Can you imagine?

Especially when he burned his beard off. Would be ****ing hilarious.

[crazycoffey]

The libies are trying to regulate our fantasies now, sheeez.

J/k rainman, poke poke.....

[Steron]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Lots of good suggestions here. Here's a few more:

Hindenberg
One of those crazy Mayan rituals where all the stars line up and shit...crazy
Massive gladiator battles at the Colosseum
Lewis and Clark expedition

Q. I beat ya to it by a couple posts!