Home Mail Chat Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > Washington DC and The Holy Land

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2018, 12:21 PM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
Be Kind To Your Pets
 
gblowfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Glorious Independence, MO
Casino cash: $10036278
VARSITY
Here's Where Pfizer is going with their $5 billion tax cut

Buying back their stock, enriching stock holders, laying off researchers. Making America Great Again!

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...108-story.html
Posts: 34,705
gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.gblowfish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 06:10 PM   #46
manchambo manchambo is offline
Veteran
 
manchambo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Casino cash: $12256
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
Do I have this right, liberals are outraged at big pharma not expanding more quickly?
No. You don't have it right.

But I suppose it is necessary for you to ignore the actual point to maintain your supply side economics fantasy.
__________________
By Allah behave yourself. I will give you a taste of my shoe.
Posts: 3,461
manchambo has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:57 PM   #47
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
Only rapes to save
 
'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Casino cash: $39672
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
This is what the articles state in my links. They had several failures in this research and nothing promising on the horizon. Teach me.
They aren't reinvesting in R&D; they're looking to outsource their R&D to the public system, then they'll buy up the patents. Moreover the R&D they mention in the article is horseshit. Both pregabalin (Lyrica) and tanezumab are already approve or fast-tracked. Phase IV trials don't involve any R&D; they're just long-term safety checks. And that's not to mention the fact that what Pharma claims they spend on R&D ($2 billion per approved drug) is significantly inflated, up to a factor of three.
__________________
"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 68,429
'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 08:24 PM   #48
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Seeking the Truth daily
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $34409
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
And that's not to mention the fact that what Pharma claims they spend on R&D ($2 billion per approved drug) is significantly inflated, up to a factor of three.
Seems like there is a lot a windage in that claim.

Up to a factor of three...so what is it 3 or 1 or something?

Im sure you have some data to back that claim up, share an example or two of a drug that has reached the market where the manufacturer has claimed R and D that is inflated by a factor or 3x.

Can you cite any examples of cleared drugs that had allocated R and D expenses that were say $700 Million that the maker said was $2Billion?

Pfizer in 2017 has plans to spend $7.5 Billion on R and D. Thats an annual expense. Reckon where all that goes? They have a pretty sorry pipeline so unless you know something they don't or they have new products they are keeping secret, your statement seems quite filled with urban legend and hyperbole
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 42,064
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 08:27 PM   #49
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
Only rapes to save
 
'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Casino cash: $39672
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Seems like there is a lot a windage in that claim.

Up to a factor of three...so what is it 3 or 1 or something?

Im sure you have some data to back that claim up, share an example or two of a drug that has reached the market where the manufacturer has claimed R and D that is inflated by a factor or 3x.

Can you cite any examples of cleared drugs that had allocated R and D expenses that were say $700 Million that the maker said was $2Billion?

Pfizer in 2017 has plans to spend $7.5 Billion on R and D. Thats an annual expense. Reckon where all that goes? They have a pretty sorry pipeline so unless you know something they don't or they have new products they are keeping secret, your statement seems quite filled with urban legend and hyperbole

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...?redirect=true

"Common justification for high cancer drug prices is the sizable research and development (R&D) outlay necessary to bring a drug to the US market. A recent estimate of R&D spending is $2.7 billion (2017 US dollars). However, this analysis lacks transparency and independent replication."

"In this analysis of US Securities and Exchange Commission filings for 10 cancer drugs, the median cost of developing a single cancer drug was $648.0 million"
__________________
"When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 68,429
'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 08:40 PM   #50
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Seeking the Truth daily
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $34409
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...?redirect=true

"Common justification for high cancer drug prices is the sizable research and development (R&D) outlay necessary to bring a drug to the US market. A recent estimate of R&D spending is $2.7 billion (2017 US dollars). However, this analysis lacks transparency and independent replication."

"In this analysis of US Securities and Exchange Commission filings for 10 cancer drugs, the median cost of developing a single cancer drug was $648.0 million"
Direct expenses associated with the cleared drug thats probably right or directionally so. But for that cleared drug there is a huge pile of expenses that went south when the drug failed to make it. When those dollars get spread to the cleared drugs its easy to see an fully allocated cost to discover develop and register a drug at the $2.8 level.

Apples and Oranges.

This may help you to understand the fallacy of the analysis you have cited:

Drug Development Costs Revisited

By Derek Lowe

October 18, 2017

A recent paper on drug development costs did not impress me. But if possible, it impressed Matthew Herper at Forbes even less. That’s the one where the authors looked at a number of companies that had been around long enough to develop one drug – they figured that this would give a cleaner read on what that one drug cost, as opposed to trying to work it out from a larger or more well-established company’s budget, and the figure that they came up with was $648 million.

Herper takes issue with this in the same way that I did:

Prasad and Mailankody assert this analysis takes into account the high attrition rates of drug development because each company was developing between 2 and 11 experimental medicines, only one of which reached the market. But this assumes that the companies were developing a large enough number of medicines to capture the high failure rate of drug development.

Given that 9 in 10 medicines fail, it seems unlikely that looking at companies that had made 4.3 attempts at creating a drug, on average, would capture this. Conceptually, this is no different from simply looking at companies that had only tried to develop a single drug and happened to succeed. Researchers call this “survivorship bias” – it’s like estimating an average lifespan by asking people their ages, but not finding out if anyone already died.

He has the data to back this up, too. If it really costs about $648 million to develop a drug, then you would figure that as a company gets large enough to have several projects running, those costs should converge more and more on a figure in that range, as you average out the slightly-cheaper and slightly-more-expensive ones. Heck, it should probably converge on something even lower, because a larger company would certainly have some economies of scale in its development costs that a smaller one-drug company has had to pay full whack for.

But that’s absolutely not what happens. As Herper shows, the more drugs a company has developed, the higher the average cost per drug. That, my friends, is because the cost for the one-drug-only companies is not representative, for just the reasons mentioned above. When you look at what companies spend to keep on developing drugs, year after year, the true costs become apparent, and the number is not pretty. It comes out to a bit over $2 billion per, these days.

And “these days” is an important qualifier, because these costs have not been static. One of the things you come away with from studying this issue is that the cost-per-drug has truly been increasing, and that the (relatively steady) productivity of the drug industry as a whole is due to lots more cash being frantically bulldozed into the the furnaces behind the scenes.

The real problem is that the amount spent to develop every new drug seems to be increasing. Prasad and Mailankody present the $2.7 billion Tufts estimate as being in contrast with an estimate of $320 million produced by the group Public Citizen. But the Public Citizen estimate, which is also based on R&D budgets divided by the number of drugs approved, is based on drugs approved in the 1990s. And the most obvious explanation for the difference is that the R&D dollars spent per drug have increased ten-fold in two decades.

This is exactly the observation that Jack Scannell and his co-authors noted in Nature Reviews Drug Discovery in 2012, calling it “Eroom’s Law” – the reverse of the tech industry’s Moore’s Law, which predicts that transistors become exponentially cheaper over time.

Exactly. I would like to lay down a challenge for future authors who want to show that “come on, drug development’s really not all that expensive, right guys?” Unless they can show that they have read, understood, and refuted the best writing and evidence on this subject, with detailed reasons why the previous analyses are wrong, they are not to be taken seriously.

Everyone who comes after this topic mentions the Tufts figures (which are damned close to what Herper arrives at, by the way), but generally to brush them off with a “ah, that can’t be right” and an insinuation that they must be a bunch of industry shills. But that won’t cut it. If you want to show that drugs are actually a lot cheaper to find, then you not only need to engage with the Tufts numbers, in detail, but you need to also deal with the writings of Jack Scannell, Bernard Munos, and others, with those others very much including Matt Herper.

Show just why they’re wrong. Don’t just wave your hands at them in annoyance and say that these numbers are obviously inflated or something – show why they’re wrong. Because I don’t think that they are.
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 42,064
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 10:32 PM   #51
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
45, 46, 47....
 
GloryDayz's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: FEMA-Free Zone
Casino cash: $87480
Quote:
Originally Posted by manchambo View Post
No. You don't have it right.

But I suppose it is necessary for you to ignore the actual point to maintain your supply side economics fantasy.
So are you pro-big-pharma or anti-big-pharma?
__________________
.
#MeToo #HeToo
.
#Doorknobs
.
Bots man, BOTS!!!
.
Posts: 65,724
GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 10:57 PM   #52
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $19337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Read the OP again.
Explain it to us.
__________________


“The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they’re not.” - Hillary Clinton
Posts: 94,128
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:06 PM   #53
manchambo manchambo is offline
Veteran
 
manchambo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Casino cash: $12256
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
So are you pro-big-pharma or anti-big-pharma?
This has nothing to do with big Pharma, and you know it.

It is an illustration of the fallacy in thinking that tax breaks will benefit the non rich.
__________________
By Allah behave yourself. I will give you a taste of my shoe.
Posts: 3,461
manchambo has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:10 PM   #54
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $19337
Quote:
Originally Posted by manchambo View Post
This has nothing to do with big Pharma, and you know it.

It is an illustration of the fallacy in thinking that tax breaks will benefit the non rich.
These tax cuts benefit the non rich directly, unless they're so non-rich that they aren't even involved in the income tax system.
__________________


“The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they’re not.” - Hillary Clinton
Posts: 94,128
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:18 PM   #55
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
45, 46, 47....
 
GloryDayz's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: FEMA-Free Zone
Casino cash: $87480
Quote:
Originally Posted by manchambo View Post
This has nothing to do with big Pharma, and you know it.

It is an illustration of the fallacy in thinking that tax breaks will benefit the non rich.
But you're a liberal, surely you rejoice in big-pharma being hurt, no?
__________________
.
#MeToo #HeToo
.
#Doorknobs
.
Bots man, BOTS!!!
.
Posts: 65,724
GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.GloryDayz is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:19 PM   #56
manchambo manchambo is offline
Veteran
 
manchambo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Casino cash: $12256
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
These tax cuts benefit the non rich directly, unless they're so non-rich that they aren't even involved in the income tax system.
This is a deceptive use of "these," as the tax breaks we're talking about are for corporations.
__________________
By Allah behave yourself. I will give you a taste of my shoe.
Posts: 3,461
manchambo has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:25 PM   #57
Jim Hammer Jim Hammer is online now
Veteran
 
Jim Hammer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: KCMO
Casino cash: $500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Explain it to us.
Start with this first. If you still need help, ask again later.

Spoiler!

Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
These tax cuts benefit the non rich directly, unless they're so non-rich that they aren't even involved in the income tax system.
You didn't read the OP, did you. Cliffs notes:

Pfizer says it's going to pocket tax cuts and lay off employees.

How does this benefit anyone except the rich in his case?
Posts: 2,071
Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:30 PM   #58
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $19337
Quote:
Originally Posted by manchambo View Post
This is a deceptive use of "these," as the tax breaks we're talking about are for corporations.
It's not deceptive, they're part of the same tax reform. Not every single line item in the reform benefits the non-rich. That's an absurd standard. On the whole, the reform package directly benefits the non-rich.
__________________


“The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they’re not.” - Hillary Clinton
Posts: 94,128
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:30 PM   #59
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $19337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
Start with this first. If you still need help, ask again later.
Yes, I need more help since you didn't give me a straight answer. I'm asking you to explain it to me.
__________________


“The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they’re not.” - Hillary Clinton
Posts: 94,128
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:38 PM   #60
Jim Hammer Jim Hammer is online now
Veteran
 
Jim Hammer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: KCMO
Casino cash: $500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yes, I need more help since you didn't give me a straight answer. I'm asking you to explain it to me.
Explain the OP? I guess you skipped this part of that post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
You didn't read the OP, did you. Cliffs notes:

Pfizer says it's going to pocket tax cuts and lay off employees.

How does this benefit anyone except the rich in his case?
Posts: 2,071
Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.Jim Hammer would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
Fort Worth Texas Process Servers
Covering Arlington, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie and surrounding communities.
Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.