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Old 03-03-2017, 04:41 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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The Basic Formula For Every Shocking Russia/Trump Revelation

The Basic Formula For Every Shocking Russia/Trump Revelation

The basic formula for every breaking Trump/Russia story is essentially as follows:

1. The New York Times or Washington Post releases an article that at first blush appears extremely damning.

2. Anti-Trump pundits and Democrats react reflexively to the news, express shrieking outrage, and proclaim that this finally proves untoward collusion between Trump and Russia — a smoking gun, at last.

3. Aggrieved former Clinton apparatchiks *connect the dots* in a manner eerily reminiscent of right-wing Glenn Beck-esque prognostication circa 2009.

4. Self-proclaimed legal experts rashly opine as to whether the new revelation entails some kind of criminally actionable offense. (Recall the now-laughable certitude that felled National Security Advisor Mike Flynn violated the 200+ year old Logan Act.) This latest version is the certitude that Jeff Sessions committed perjury, when that at the very least is highly questionable.




5. The notion of Russian “collusion” being key to toppling Trump becomes further implanted in the minds of the most energized Democratic activists, as evidenced this time around by a troupe of protesters who showed up to the Department of Justice headquarters brandishing trademarked “Resist” placards, chanting “Lock Him Up,” and (as usual) hyperventilating about Putin. As I’ve written before, Trump/Putin theories are increasingly the top concern that plugged-in “Resistance” types bring up at the highly-charged town hall meetings that have received so much attention of late.




6. Pointing out these glaring flaws in the latest anti-Russia frenzy is immediately construed by cynics as “defending Trump” or “defending Sessions” when it most assuredly is not. At least in my own case, it’s a defense of not getting enraptured by irrational hysterics to further short-term political aims.

7. People who’d spent the past 12 hours frothing at the mouth gradually come to realize that their initial furor was probably overblown, and that a more sober look at the actual facts at hand reveal that the anti-Trump chorus probably got ahead of itself…again.




8. Democrats who sought to capitalize on the uproar end up looking extremely foolish.




9. It becomes “normalized” (that new favorite buzzword!) to cast any meetings or contacts with Russian officials as inherently sinister. Rather than just a basic function of a Senator’s ordinary duties, meeting with “The Russians” is increasingly viewed as evidence of nefarious intent, and perhaps participation in a grand global conspiracy.

10. Political ineptitude and clumsiness (as was very probably the case with Flynn) gets interpreted as something more calculated than it really is. Sessions could’ve avoided this ridiculous controversy by saying something to the effect of: “I did not meet with any Russian officials in my informal capacity as Trump campaign surrogate, but I did speak with Russian officials over the course of my ordinary Senatorial duties.” The problem is, such an admission would’ve probably blown up into a big political snafu; Democrats would’ve seized on it as evidence of Russian collusion. So Sessions tried to lawyer himself out of trouble with an ambiguous comment during sworn testimony. This allowed him to sneak through the confirmation process, but created an even bigger political storm later.

11. A Trump official’s least egregious quality ends up being portrayed as his most egregious quality. There were any number of reasons to be highly worried about the presence of Mike Flynn in the Trump administration, from his bellicose posture toward Iran, to his outlandish views on the alleged threat posed by Islam. Conversing with the Russian ambassador about reducing tensions would very clearly not have been on the “reasons to be worried about Flynn” list. Likewise, Jeff Sessions is a troubling figure for a whole host of reasons, ranging from his hawkishly retrograde attitude about Drug Prohibition to his dicey history on racial matters. That he spoke to the Russian Ambassador in September 2016 would not be on the “reasons to be worried about Sessions” list.

12. The overall political climate gets further degraded and warped without any commensurate upside.

13. Repeat.

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Old 03-03-2017, 06:57 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It's so fun reading Dem Underground. They're giddy like kids at Christmas, completely sure THIS is the nail in Don's coffin. We see some of that here too. Fits entirely with the model of outrage the author wrote in the OP
Wishful thinking from people who don't realize how divorced they are from reality
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:04 PM   #47
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I'm not a Trump supporter and have been reduced to gadfly now that he's the head of the party, but it doesn't take a genius to see that we are in uncharted territory.

A handful of nutty voices on the fringes of the political spectrum took up the birther nonsense. This wasn't the party and its own operatives all marching in time. The Republican party opposed him tooth and nail on the floor of Congress and in their districts at home but there was no #notmypresident. He got his confirmations. He got his EOs. He was opposed vehemently but the election results were respected and he was treated as legitimate. The Republicans stopped him by winning midterm elections.

It's a desperation strategy for a DNC that is in disarray and refuses to adapt. The voters sang them a dirge, but they did not mourn.
Well, I'm not here to make claims about legitimacy. Russian involvement, be it correct or not, was a major issue during the final weeks of the campaign. Trump openly implored Wikileaks, largely suspected to be given hacks by Russians, to hack Hillary. The Russian Ambassador held meetings with Trump officials (which they initially did not disclose when asked) during the RNC Convention. The Reb Party Platform softened their stance towards Russia. This was on top of already continuing saga concerning Ukraine, Crimea and Syria. Its not unreasonable to ask why all these undisclosed contacts, adjustments to views on Russia, combined with the Intelligence Community concluding Russia is meddling to ask what these meetings entailed and what was the content.

I can't believe this is really a debate.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:06 PM   #48
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Originally Posted by Easy 6 View Post
If the 17 had anything serious whatsoever, those committees would know it and all hell would be breaking loose

So far, you guys have bupkus, zilch, nada... get back to us when you do
Which is exactly what we said Reb led investigation after Reb led investigation regarding Benghazi. No there, there.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:13 PM   #49
IowaHawkeyeChief IowaHawkeyeChief is offline
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
OK, but Trump said their were NO contacts with Russians with him or his campaign and now we're up to what 4... 5?

If we're going to hold the same standards. Then just admit he lied and quit blaming it on some insidious formula.
LOL... I love CNN, Trump aides met with Russian OFFICIALS Really, it is an OFFICIAL, The Ambassador, who has meet with Dems and Reps continually, and visited the Whitehouse 22 times under Obama.

You do understand it was one official of Russia and these meetings have happened with both parties, during campaigns and transitions.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:15 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Easy 6 View Post
Sessions recusing himself was an awful move IMO, he very clearly explained the misunderstanding he had about Frankens question

It was a no win scenario... dont recuse and the dems hair is on fire, recuse and the dems hair is still on fire with the added benefit of being able to say "see, he is guilty!"

Loretta didnt recuse herself after meeting with Bill to talk about "grandchildren"... so it was a terrible move for him to do it, reps are awful about showing spine sometimes

Treason? lol... when anything substantive comes out of this, let us know
I think Sessions know there is nothing there... He has been briefed on the case the last 3 weeks. I think he knows it would never be involved and this will make those results more clear to the LWNJ if he recuses now. MHO
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:16 PM   #51
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Wishful thinking from people who don't realize how divorced they are from reality
Govt is their religion and Obama was their high priest. They're seeing a bunch of louts lounging around their temple now, crushing beer cans, farting and laughing. And they're appalled
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:19 PM   #52
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It depends on the context and whether you're forthright about it or not. The more they deny, and then we learn that they lied, the shadier things seem to any outside observer.

Take this meeting between Kislyak and Kushner/Flynn that went down at Trump Tower. They paraded every asshole that wandered by in front of the cameras and yet somehow thought that they needed to sneak Kislyak in the back door.

If it's so proper for all these meetings to happen, why do they keep lying about it? Why do they keep pushing so far back on this stuff?
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:20 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
LOL... I love CNN, Trump aides met with Russian OFFICIALS Really, it is an OFFICIAL, The Ambassador, who has meet with Dems and Reps continually, and visited the Whitehouse 22 times under Obama.

You do understand it was one official of Russia and these meetings have happened with both parties, during campaigns and transitions.
I don't understand anything. That would imply there has been an investigation done, which there hasn't. All I know is they said there were NO contacts and now there are. That's what I understand.

But all of that doesn't go to my point in this thread. My point is "Same shit different party", but Taco John and others want to act like this is somehow "different".

Give me a break! Dems are going to ask for impartial investigations and until they get them this will be an issue that plagues them throughout. I'm not commenting whether it will ultimately bear out. I'm just saying its not "unique". And you have to be an echo chamber party biding political hack not to recognize that. The sooner the Trump team complies and gets it out of the way (assuming there is nothing there) the better for them. Otherwise, welcome to your Benghazi.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:21 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
OK, and are you saying the Rebs never tried to cast Obama as illegitmate? All I'm saying is, if you want to complain about it fine, but don't do it in a vacuum. Don't imply this is something we've never seen before. The blueprint was already there.
Some did on the Birther issue, including Trump that turned out to be false. The same applies here. The accusations of collusion with Russia lack any valid evidence, however, with a complicit MSM, it I getting pushed 24/7 to make Trump illegitimate. So my question to you: If the MSM was chasing the rabbit on Obama's birth certificate, making it an issue 24/7, do you think it would have taken over 3 years for him to release it?

You are right, both sides tried it, one just has a willing co-conspirator with the MSM.

Last edited by IowaHawkeyeChief; 03-03-2017 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post

But all of that doesn't go to my point in this thread. My point is "Same shit different party", but Taco John and others want to act like this is somehow "different".
This is definitely different. They are trying to execute a coup.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:26 PM   #56
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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This is definitely different. They are trying to execute a coup.
Yeah, right, Dems accused the Trump Campaign of the same thing. You are so neck deep in your partisanship you try to sell small distinctions as "completely different".
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:27 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief View Post
Some did on the Birther issue, including Trump that turned out to be false. The same applies here. The accusations of collusion with Russia lack an valid evidence, however, with a complicit MSM, it I getting pushed 24/7 to make Trump illegitimate. So my question to you: If the MSM was chasing the rabbit on Obama's birth certificate, making it an issue 24/, do you think it would have taken over 3 years for him to release it?

You are right, both sides tried it, one just has a willing co-conspirator with the MSM.
I think Obama viewed it more in a racist context than a political one and didn't want to give that legitimacy.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:28 PM   #58
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Obama has established a base in DC. Valerie Jarret has moved in. He's been vocal about his intention to be a voice in this process. Meanwhile, after 8 years of silence, Bush has started to criticize a sitting president. Meanwhile the MSM has pumped out #FakeNews against a sitting president non-stop since he got elected. Meanwhile, the loser of the last election has ramped up her campaign again...

This isn't normal.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Well, I'm not here to make claims about legitimacy. Russian involvement, be it correct or not, was a major issue during the final weeks of the campaign. Trump openly implored Wikileaks, largely suspected to be given hacks by Russians, to hack Hillary as a joke since her email server had already been bleach bit and the 30,000 email were unrecoverable. The Russian Ambassador [B]interacted at a cocktail party with 50 other ambassadors and with Trump officials [/B during the RNC Convention.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:30 PM   #60
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