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Old 03-03-2017, 04:41 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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The Basic Formula For Every Shocking Russia/Trump Revelation

The Basic Formula For Every Shocking Russia/Trump Revelation

The basic formula for every breaking Trump/Russia story is essentially as follows:

1. The New York Times or Washington Post releases an article that at first blush appears extremely damning.

2. Anti-Trump pundits and Democrats react reflexively to the news, express shrieking outrage, and proclaim that this finally proves untoward collusion between Trump and Russia — a smoking gun, at last.

3. Aggrieved former Clinton apparatchiks *connect the dots* in a manner eerily reminiscent of right-wing Glenn Beck-esque prognostication circa 2009.

4. Self-proclaimed legal experts rashly opine as to whether the new revelation entails some kind of criminally actionable offense. (Recall the now-laughable certitude that felled National Security Advisor Mike Flynn violated the 200+ year old Logan Act.) This latest version is the certitude that Jeff Sessions committed perjury, when that at the very least is highly questionable.




5. The notion of Russian “collusion” being key to toppling Trump becomes further implanted in the minds of the most energized Democratic activists, as evidenced this time around by a troupe of protesters who showed up to the Department of Justice headquarters brandishing trademarked “Resist” placards, chanting “Lock Him Up,” and (as usual) hyperventilating about Putin. As I’ve written before, Trump/Putin theories are increasingly the top concern that plugged-in “Resistance” types bring up at the highly-charged town hall meetings that have received so much attention of late.




6. Pointing out these glaring flaws in the latest anti-Russia frenzy is immediately construed by cynics as “defending Trump” or “defending Sessions” when it most assuredly is not. At least in my own case, it’s a defense of not getting enraptured by irrational hysterics to further short-term political aims.

7. People who’d spent the past 12 hours frothing at the mouth gradually come to realize that their initial furor was probably overblown, and that a more sober look at the actual facts at hand reveal that the anti-Trump chorus probably got ahead of itself…again.




8. Democrats who sought to capitalize on the uproar end up looking extremely foolish.




9. It becomes “normalized” (that new favorite buzzword!) to cast any meetings or contacts with Russian officials as inherently sinister. Rather than just a basic function of a Senator’s ordinary duties, meeting with “The Russians” is increasingly viewed as evidence of nefarious intent, and perhaps participation in a grand global conspiracy.

10. Political ineptitude and clumsiness (as was very probably the case with Flynn) gets interpreted as something more calculated than it really is. Sessions could’ve avoided this ridiculous controversy by saying something to the effect of: “I did not meet with any Russian officials in my informal capacity as Trump campaign surrogate, but I did speak with Russian officials over the course of my ordinary Senatorial duties.” The problem is, such an admission would’ve probably blown up into a big political snafu; Democrats would’ve seized on it as evidence of Russian collusion. So Sessions tried to lawyer himself out of trouble with an ambiguous comment during sworn testimony. This allowed him to sneak through the confirmation process, but created an even bigger political storm later.

11. A Trump official’s least egregious quality ends up being portrayed as his most egregious quality. There were any number of reasons to be highly worried about the presence of Mike Flynn in the Trump administration, from his bellicose posture toward Iran, to his outlandish views on the alleged threat posed by Islam. Conversing with the Russian ambassador about reducing tensions would very clearly not have been on the “reasons to be worried about Flynn” list. Likewise, Jeff Sessions is a troubling figure for a whole host of reasons, ranging from his hawkishly retrograde attitude about Drug Prohibition to his dicey history on racial matters. That he spoke to the Russian Ambassador in September 2016 would not be on the “reasons to be worried about Sessions” list.

12. The overall political climate gets further degraded and warped without any commensurate upside.

13. Repeat.

https://medium.com/theyoungturks/the...f05#.7b7qcw6nn
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:35 PM   #31
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Originally Posted by Chief Pagan View Post
There is no doubt that Russian's interests would be served to see more anti-establishment, anti-EU, [generally] pro-Russian populist come to power in the EU.

So why in the Hell wouldn't the Russians be trying to interfere in EU elections?



Oh right, it's not part of the correct narrative so it's just so much more fake news. Carry on...
Yeah! Why shouldn't we let the Russians influence us to a greater degree than our NATO allies! They have such an admirable form of government and society! Great point!
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Yeah! Why shouldn't we let the Russians influence us to a greater degree than our NATO allies! They have such an admirable form of government and society! Great point!
Russia didn't influence my vote. The second debate did.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:37 PM   #33
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It's so fun reading Dem Underground. They're giddy like kids at Christmas, completely sure THIS is the nail in Don's coffin. We see some of that here too. Fits entirely with the model of outrage the author wrote in the OP
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:37 PM   #34
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Let me ask you a question:

Do you believe that Trump hired russian prostitutes to piss in a bed that the Obama's slept in?
I have no idea and don't predispose myself to conjecture, especially something as hilarious as that. Could it have happened? Absolutely. Do I know it? No, and its not question that concerns me much.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:39 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
I have no idea and don't predispose myself to conjecture, especially something as hilarious as that. Could it have happened? Absolutely. Do I know it? No, and its not question that concerns me much.

There you go. Congratulations. You just outlined the rational position on the "17 agencies" line. Thank you.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:39 PM   #36
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Russia didn't influence my vote. The second debate did.
Did I accuse you of that?
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:41 PM   #37
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
There you go. Congratulations. You just outlined the rational position on the "17 agencies" line. Thank you.
No, that reveals an ignorance of capacities. What you are saying is that the US Intelligence apparatus is on the same level and credibility as tabloids.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:43 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
No, that reveals an ignorance of capacities. What you are saying is that the US Intelligence apparatus is on the same level and credibility as tabloids.
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Hence, pissgate.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:46 PM   #39
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Yes, that is what I'm saying. Hence, pissgate.
I understand you think you've made some point here, I'm just not quite sure what it is?
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:47 PM   #40
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I can live with that. You're just a foil for the ears that are hearing right now.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:51 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
No, that reveals an ignorance of capacities. What you are saying is that the US Intelligence apparatus is on the same level and credibility as tabloids.
What indisputably illegal evidence have any of those 17 agencies put forth against the Trump admin?

You clearly have a lot of faith in them, so wouldnt they be bringing down some serious smoke if they had anything remotely close to what you and the left are hoping for?
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:51 PM   #42
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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I can live with that. You're just a foil for the ears that are hearing right now.
Are you comparing an alleged European dossier that our intelligence agencies investigated and determined the reality of to both Obama and Trump as the same thing as our very same intelligence agencies conducting their own investigations and coming to their own conclusions regarding Russian interferrance?
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:54 PM   #43
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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What indisputably illegal evidence have any of those 17 agencies put forth against the Trump admin?

You clearly have a lot of faith in them, so wouldnt they be bringing down some serious smoke if they had anything remotely close to what you and the left are hoping for?
Indisputable? Do you honestly believe it is Intelligence Agencies MO to publiclly brief how they conduct operations and the entirety of those results? That's why they speak to Senate Committees.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
OK, and are you saying the Rebs never tried to cast Obama as illegitmate? All I'm saying is, if you want to complain about it fine, but don't do it in a vacuum. Don't imply this is something we've never seen before. The blueprint was already there.
I'm not a Trump supporter and have been reduced to gadfly now that he's the head of the party, but it doesn't take a genius to see that we are in uncharted territory.

A handful of nutty voices on the fringes of the political spectrum took up the birther nonsense. This wasn't the party and its own operatives all marching in time. The Republican party opposed him tooth and nail on the floor of Congress and in their districts at home but there was no #notmypresident. He got his confirmations. He got his EOs. He was opposed vehemently but the election results were respected and he was treated as legitimate. The Republicans stopped him by winning midterm elections.

It's a desperation strategy for a DNC that is in disarray and refuses to adapt. The voters sang them a dirge, but they did not mourn.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Indisputable? Do you honestly believe it is Intelligence Agencies MO to publiclly brief how they conduct operations and the entirety of those results? That's why they speak to Senate Committees.
If the 17 had anything serious whatsoever, those committees would know it and all hell would be breaking loose

So far, you guys have bupkus, zilch, nada... get back to us when you do
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