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Old 12-28-2012, 02:00 PM  
OnTheWarpath15 OnTheWarpath15 is offline
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An addition to the Pioli resume

I was bored, thought I'd run some numbers - hadn't done any Chiefs-related homework in a while.

Anywho, discussion in another thread got me to thinking about the "talent level" on this team. People seem to be getting back in the habit of blaming specifically the QB and coaching, while claiming that this roster, and those before it are loaded with talent.

For a team that supposedly has talent, all they've done is beat up on the weak sisters of the poor over the last 4 years of the Pioli Nightmare.

23 wins in 4 years.

Those 23 wins came against teams with a collective 152-214 record and a .415 winning percentage. You can thank Green Bay dropping a metric ****ton of passes back in December of 2011 - take them out of the equation, and you're looking at a .375 winning percentage.

1 win in 4 years against a 10-win or better team.

3 wins in 4 years against a 9-win or better team.

20 wins against 8-8 teams or worse - 11 of those wins against teams with 6 wins or less.

So the "Executive of the Decade" was responsible for 5.75 wins per year, and we should consider ourselves lucky we "earned" that many.

In this era of parity in the NFL, a team with this much "talent" would be winning more than 5.75 games per year. Even without a QB. Even without a QB and HC.

Folks say that Mark Sanchez is a POS, and that we have more talent than the Jets. The same Jets that have won 34 games in the last 4 years. 11 more than the Chiefs.

Buffalo has shit for talent, plays in a brutal division, and has 2 fewer wins over the same time period.

Cleveland is hot garbage, and they've won 4 fewer games over the past 4 years. 1 game a year difference.

Jacksonville has 1 fewer win.

Miami has 4 MORE wins.

Oakland has 2 MORE wins.


The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that we have more "talent" than every one of the above teams.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our QB play has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our coaching has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.


The overwhelming majority of this board would be dead wrong on one of those three assessments. One of these things is not like the other.

Folks, it's time to wake up and realize that QB and HC are just part of the problem.

I see a lot of bad teams with bad QB's and bad HC's that have won as much or more than we have.

Sadly, the bottom line is that there isn't nearly as much "talent" on this roster that you think there is - and that we're a lot closer to the Cleveland's, Buffalo's and Jacksonville's of the NFL than you want to admit.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:22 PM   #106
SAUTO SAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
You don't get to - or win - a Super Bowl with just a QB.

The problem is that this fanbase automatically undervalues players on other teams, while overvaluing our players.

You need a complete team - including a QB.

And even then, sometimes it's not enough.

Could Geno Smith come in next year and lead us to 8 or 9 wins?

Maybe.

But unless the new GM starts hitting on some draft picks and making some smart FA signings, 8-9 wins and the occasional one-and-done in the playoffs is the ceiling.
the opposite could be said about quite a few here too
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:23 PM   #107
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
And it will be on the next guy as well.

As has been pointed out several times, the core of this team hasn't changed in four years - it's just gotten older.

We have all these easy fixes, yet the Executive of the Decade wasn't able to fix anything in four years.

A QB is part of the problem, but far from the entire problem.
Preaching to the choir.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:28 PM   #108
-King- -King- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
And it will be on the next guy as well.

As has been pointed out several times, the core of this team hasn't changed in four years - it's just gotten older.

We have all these easy fixes, yet the Executive of the Decade wasn't able to fix anything in four years.

A QB is part of the problem, but far from the entire problem.
QB is at least 75% of the problem.

You guys preached for years about the difference a franchise QB could make and now that we're on the verge of getting one, you say that a QB won't make that big of a difference.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:28 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
the opposite could be said about quite a few here too
THIS.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:35 PM   #110
RealSNR RealSNR is offline
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
A league average team with a franchise QB can compete for a title. A league average team with Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn coached by Romeo Crennel can compete for a #1 pick.
Pretty much.

Don't really give a shit about how much or how little talent there is on the team.

Get a QB, THEN go bitch about how Kendrick Lewis isn't good enough.
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I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:36 PM   #111
RealSNR RealSNR is offline
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
And it will be on the next guy as well.

As has been pointed out several times, the core of this team hasn't changed in four years - it's just gotten older.

We have all these easy fixes, yet the Executive of the Decade wasn't able to fix anything in four years.

A QB is part of the problem, but far from the entire problem.
It's more than 20% of the problem. Or 30%. Or 50%.

It's around 70% of the problem I would say if you don't have a franchise QB in this era of the NFL. That would not have been the case in the 90s. It's the case now, however.
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I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:37 PM   #112
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Our running game is exceptional and our pass protection proved that behind Orton, they are fine. Our passing game improves behind a new QB and we need one more passing target (at least). And we need an offensive coordinator with an imagination.

Our defense, our pass rushers are outstanding, are ILBs are good enough, and Poe should hopefully continue to improve. Our secondary needs 1 or 2 pieces -- doesn't need to be pro bowlers, but improvements are necessary. Our DEs need to improve, but that's not a critical position.

So essentially you're talking about a franchise QB, #2 receiver, a coaching overhaul, 1 or 2 pieces in the secondary, and hopeful improvements on DE (but not going to kill us if not. A good front office can easily accomplish that in one offseason, given our draft position and cap space. Particularly since a franchise QB and coaching overhaul are almost certainties.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #113
SAUTO SAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
QB is at least 75% of the problem.

You guys preached for years about the difference a franchise QB could make and now that we're on the verge of getting one, you say that a QB won't make that big of a difference.
THIS.
funny how things change
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #114
Hammock Parties Hammock Parties is offline
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
the opposite could be said about quite a few here too
Sorry, but that's BS.

Do you know how much crap homers on this site have spewed about things like:


Jon Baldwin vs Demaryius Thomas

Tony Moeaki vs ANY tight end drafted in recent memory.

Dexter McCluster vs Players Who Actually Make Plays

Brady Quinn vs Legit NFL QBs

Tyson Jackson vs Any Asshole With A Helmet

Stanford Routt vs Corners Who Aren't Burn Victims



There is precious little talent on this roster to "undervalue."
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:40 PM   #115
SAUTO SAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
We have easy fixes, yet didn't fix anything in FOUR YEARS.
True on both counts.

Except the o line as long as we keep Albert.

It's all on the fail that is Pioli
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:41 PM   #116
SAUTO SAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
Sorry, but that's BS.

Do you know how much crap homers on this site have spewed about things like:


Jon Baldwin vs Demaryius Thomas

Tony Moeaki vs ANY tight end drafted in recent memory.

Dexter McCluster vs Players Who Actually Make Plays

Brady Quinn vs Legit NFL QBs

Tyson Jackson vs Any Asshole With A Helmet

Stanford Routt vs Corners Who Aren't Burn Victims



There is precious little talent on this roster to "undervalue."
come on man. Seriously?

It goes both ways. Look around
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:42 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
Sorry, but that's BS.

Do you know how much crap homers on this site have spewed about things like:


Jon Baldwin vs Demaryius Thomas

Tony Moeaki vs ANY tight end drafted in recent memory.

Dexter McCluster vs Players Who Actually Make Plays

Brady Quinn vs Legit NFL QBs

Tyson Jackson vs Any Asshole With A Helmet

Stanford Routt vs Corners Who Aren't Burn Victims



There is precious little talent on this roster to "undervalue."
Very little, tbh. That doesnt mean a qb wont make a huge difference.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:43 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post

So essentially you're talking about a franchise QB, #2 receiver, a coaching overhaul, 1 or 2 pieces in the secondary, and hopeful improvements on DE (but not going to kill us if not.
That's a huge ****ing haul, dude.

We need 6 or 7 new starters.

QB
WR
LDE
RDE
ILB
CB
S

And we need massive improvement from current starters at:

LG
NT
TE

That's not an easy fix.

We need two offseasons, IMO, before we talk about serious playoff contention.

Next season, if Geno is drafted and plays at a solid level I think we can go 8-8 or so. No better.

The roster needs work.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:44 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
come on man. Seriously?

It goes both ways. Look around
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Examples of undervalued players? Lay them on me.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:45 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
True on both counts.

Except the o line as long as we keep Albert.

It's all on the fail that is Pioli
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To Pioli's credit, he took a roster full of major liabilities at starting positions to a roster that's rounded out with "good enough" guys. He did a pretty good job of building a team around supporting cast members. So he deserves credit for that.

The problem is that good GMs build around playmakers at core positions and Pioli decided to lay up every chance he got. That's ridiculous for a GM paid the way he is to not do that for 4 years. So the good news is, the foundation is set -- good support players, great cap space. We just need a GM now who can put together a few great drafts and make some quality free agency moves. Not as far off as people think. We're in a much better situation than a lot of new GMs walk into.
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