Other Sports Why the National League sucks... - Page 3

Stewie · 10-03-2014, 02:17 PM

It's a foregone conclusion that pitcher's batting in the NL will come to an end shortly and bring on the DH... probably by 2017/2018 according to those in the know. The MLBPA is the driving force.

Today's SF and Washington game is a perfect example. Third inning, runners on for SF and they have hitters bunting TWICE IN A ROW! And they suck at bunting! It's the third ****ing inning! JFC! Is Ned Yost the guru of National League managerial thinking? Ridiculous!

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-03-2014, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewie

A National League pitcher's win total was ancillary and not my main point. I just found it interesting that pitchers "hitting" and hitters bunting twice in a row (in the 3rd inning) is still a strategy in 2014.

As a Royals fan you should be explicitly aware of the stupidity of baseball managers. Most are chickenshit, dumbass fools.

**wazu** · 10-03-2014, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

I don't think of it as strategy. You're handicapping yourself and forcing yourself to work around that handicap. It's just dumb. It's like if the AFC decided that teams can't carry kickers or punters anymore. Yeah, now coaches have to use strategy. But it's only because of the dumb rule handicapping them.

If that is handicapping then so is not being able to bring in a player after you sub them out. How about we just allow pinch hitters and pinch runners to come in and out freely and sub people back in? That way we aren't "handicapping" teams. I'm sure we'd see more offense, which I assume is the whole point, right? While we're at it, why not make it "4 strikes" and you're out instead of 3?

The DH is an abomination. And it does remove a key strategic part of the game.

Stewie · 10-03-2014, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja

His team has won World series, he cant he cope? im sure he's coping just fine with it. Even if the Cards had a ****ing DH, they would still be good. why you ask? Because they dont have idiots running their franchise like you see with other teams.

Cardinals dont have to hope their team gets lucky before other teams draft players from them.

The Cardinals are not the issue, nor the Yankees, nor any team that's been successful in the past 40 years. They've all won their share. The issue is moving MLB back to the forefront.

My point today is the SF/Wash game proves that MLB needs to move forward and be on the same page in both leagues. The move by players and management is to have the DH in the NL.

Stewie · 10-03-2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

As a Royals fan you should be explicitly aware of the stupidity of baseball managers. Most are chickenshit, dumbass fools.

Did you see my post about NL managers that act like Ned Yost?

ChiefsCountry · 10-03-2014, 02:59 PM

If the damn Phillies owner wasn't fishing we wouldn't be having this discussion.

splatbass · 10-03-2014, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaise

Just from living in NL cities and AL cities I think the NL is more entertaining because it gives you more to talk about usually, and most games seem like they have more things going on.

I've lived in NL and AL cities too - and had this argument back in the 80s. It seems to me which side you take usually depends on what league you grew up watching. I grew up in KC, but when I moved to the Bay Area in '84 the Giants fans I worked with told me how much they hated the DH rule. I like it because the team I grew up watching was AL.

It really is an old argument that dates all the way back to when the AL instituted the DH, and both sides are entrenched in their opinions for no reason other than what team they have always been a fan of. It is time to get over it.

**wazu** · 10-03-2014, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

I've lived in NL and AL cities too - and had this argument back in the 80s. It seems to me which side you take usually depends on what league you grew up watching. I grew up in KC, but when I moved to the Bay Area in '84 the Giants fans I worked with told me how much they hated the DH rule. I like it because the team I grew up watching was AL.

It really is an old argument that dates all the way back to when the AL instituted the DH, and both sides are entrenched in their opinions for no reason other than what team they have always been a fan of. It is time to get over it.

Lifelong Royals fan. Hate the DH.

splatbass · 10-03-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu

Lifelong Royals fan. Hate the DH.

There are always exceptions, which is why I said "which side you take usually depends".

I'm old enough to have watched Royals games before they instituted the rule. I like it, but not enough to get angry or insulting like some on this thread have. That is my point, that people get outraged over stupid shit sometimes and maybe should lighten the **** up.

Stewie · 10-03-2014, 03:20 PM

I'm curious as to why people "hate" the DH? It's rather odd to me. Do you need to grab a beer or take a piss while the pitcher is hitting? Just curious. And don't give me the double switch BS.

duncan_idaho · 10-03-2014, 03:20 PM

I hate watching pitchers hit, for the most part, because only a handful (like 4-5 in any given year) can actually swing the bat and work on their hitting.

The rest of the time, you're dealing with someone who's up there to: 1) Not look foolish; 2) Not get hurt; 3) Occasionally drop a sac bunt.

I hate the way pitchers hitting 9th can take the bat out of the hand of the No. 8 hitter. Oh, your 7 hitter got a two-out double? Guess what? Your 8 hitter isn't going to see anything to hit, because the pitcher is "hitting" next.

MLB teams are never going to allow pitchers to focus on being good hitters again. They're already too injury prone and already such big monetary investments, the risk of a pitcher getting injured taking BP or taking healthy cuts at the plate is just another factor teams want to avoid.

I also think the strategy aspect of things is completely overblown. If your pitcher is throwing well, it's going to be AT LEAST the 6th inning before you even think about PH for him. If he's not, it's an easy choice to pull him early. In late innings of close games, it's also a much easier call than people like to claim.

The primary argument I see against the DH is that people hate watching fat guys who can't field get away with not playing defense... but almost no MLB teams are using the DH for a primary player any more. The Royals and Red Sox and Tigers were the only teams that really do that at this point (split Adam Dunn up between the White Sox and the A's, I guess, too), and the Royals are racing to get away from that.

Teams are evolving the use of the DH to be a spot to get a player a day off without taking his bat out of the lineup. In the post-steroid, post-greenies world, this strategy helps keep guys fresh during the 162 game grind. And introduces another layer of strategy, if you're concerned about that. Let's say you've got a great defensive catcher who also is a middle of the lineup hitter. We'll call him Yalvador Polina. He's dead on his feet and desperately needs a break day at DH... but the team you're facing runs like the 2014 Kansas City Royals. Your backup C is pretty good defensively and throws well, and your pitcher holds runners well... but can you really afford to sacrifice a little D today for the long-term health and success of a key offensive player?

Adding an extra offense-only player in basketball is an interesting and valid point (and has been experimented with in various formats). I think you can make two other pretty interesting and valid points in comparing the evolution of basketball to the evolution of baseball.

Imagine, if you will, that the Eastern Conference of the NBA did NOT adopt the shot clock while the Western Conference did. And that the NBA Finals were played with the home conference's rules.

Or, that the Western Conference never adopted the 3-point shot, so any games played in those gyms were played without it?

Sports evolve. It helps them stay relevant. The DH was a key evolution in baseball history that increased popularity, and its role continues to evolve today.

Just like the pitchers hitting has continued to evolve. As time has gone on, teams have allowed their pitchers to place less and less emphasis on hitting for health and training concerns. I don't see that trend reversing, ever. Pitchers are just becoming more fragile AND more expensive at the same time as they are becoming more critical.

If anything, teams are going to have pitchers focusing less on their hitting moving forward, not more.

Prison Bitch · 10-03-2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja

His team has won World series, he cant he cope? im sure he's coping just fine with it. Even if the Cards had a ****ing DH, they would still be good. why you ask? Because they dont have idiots running their franchise like you see with other teams.

Cardinals dont have to hope their team gets lucky before other teams draft players from them.

My team's won it too, but so what? My point was you will never find a Cards (or Braves or Giants) fan who will acknowledge their run the past 20 years wouldn't have occurred in the superior league. It's not a personal knock on their delusional fans.

What's really pathetic: LA and the Cubs never did jack shit playing those crappy teams. It's really incredible.

kcxiv · 10-03-2014, 03:53 PM

how do they prevent pitchers from becoming good hitters?

Marcellus · 10-03-2014, 03:56 PM

Since 1973 when the DH was instituted in the AL there have been 40 WS played (no WS in 1994).

The AL holds an advantage of 22-18.

And you can thank the Yankees and their monster payrolls of yesteryear for almost 33% of those AL wins during that span.

So yea AL baseball is surely a much superior game.

duncan_idaho · 10-03-2014, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja

how do they prevent pitchers from becoming good hitters?

Most teams limit their pitcher BP to sac bunting work and minimal cuts.

They don't design training plans that correspond with generating torque and bat speed.

They don't have them taking full-effort cuts.

Basically, teams encourage them to be one-way players. Guys like Kershaw or Bumgarner, who are actually great enough athletes to be something other than a near-automatic out with the bat, are pretty rare.

I don't think those guys can hit because they're working really hard on it. I think it's more natural ability than anything else.

Marcellus · 10-03-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

My team's won it too, but so what? My point was you will never find a Cards (or Braves or Giants) fan who will acknowledge their run the past 20 years wouldn't have occurred in the superior league. It's not a personal knock on their delusional fans.

What's really pathetic: LA and the Cubs never did jack shit playing those crappy teams. It's really incredible.

Oh so that's why it took 29 years to make the playoffs, the superior league was holding you down.

10-03-2014, 02:17 PM
Stewie MVP Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West of the Equator Casino cash: $1949901	Why the National League sucks... It's a foregone conclusion that pitcher's batting in the NL will come to an end shortly and bring on the DH... probably by 2017/2018 according to those in the know. The MLBPA is the driving force. Today's SF and Washington game is a perfect example. Third inning, runners on for SF and they have hitters bunting TWICE IN A ROW! And they suck at bunting! It's the third ****ing inning! JFC! Is Ned Yost the guru of National League managerial thinking? Ridiculous!
Posts: 13,597

10-03-2014, 02:59 PM	#35
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $2358752	If the damn Phillies owner wasn't fishing we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Posts: 49,569

10-03-2014, 03:20 PM	#39
Stewie MVP Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West of the Equator Casino cash: $1949901	I'm curious as to why people "hate" the DH? It's rather odd to me. Do you need to grab a beer or take a piss while the pitcher is hitting? Just curious. And don't give me the double switch BS.
Posts: 13,597

10-03-2014, 03:20 PM	#40
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1790308	I hate watching pitchers hit, for the most part, because only a handful (like 4-5 in any given year) can actually swing the bat and work on their hitting. The rest of the time, you're dealing with someone who's up there to: 1) Not look foolish; 2) Not get hurt; 3) Occasionally drop a sac bunt. I hate the way pitchers hitting 9th can take the bat out of the hand of the No. 8 hitter. Oh, your 7 hitter got a two-out double? Guess what? Your 8 hitter isn't going to see anything to hit, because the pitcher is "hitting" next. MLB teams are never going to allow pitchers to focus on being good hitters again. They're already too injury prone and already such big monetary investments, the risk of a pitcher getting injured taking BP or taking healthy cuts at the plate is just another factor teams want to avoid. I also think the strategy aspect of things is completely overblown. If your pitcher is throwing well, it's going to be AT LEAST the 6th inning before you even think about PH for him. If he's not, it's an easy choice to pull him early. In late innings of close games, it's also a much easier call than people like to claim. The primary argument I see against the DH is that people hate watching fat guys who can't field get away with not playing defense... but almost no MLB teams are using the DH for a primary player any more. The Royals and Red Sox and Tigers were the only teams that really do that at this point (split Adam Dunn up between the White Sox and the A's, I guess, too), and the Royals are racing to get away from that. Teams are evolving the use of the DH to be a spot to get a player a day off without taking his bat out of the lineup. In the post-steroid, post-greenies world, this strategy helps keep guys fresh during the 162 game grind. And introduces another layer of strategy, if you're concerned about that. Let's say you've got a great defensive catcher who also is a middle of the lineup hitter. We'll call him Yalvador Polina. He's dead on his feet and desperately needs a break day at DH... but the team you're facing runs like the 2014 Kansas City Royals. Your backup C is pretty good defensively and throws well, and your pitcher holds runners well... but can you really afford to sacrifice a little D today for the long-term health and success of a key offensive player? Adding an extra offense-only player in basketball is an interesting and valid point (and has been experimented with in various formats). I think you can make two other pretty interesting and valid points in comparing the evolution of basketball to the evolution of baseball. Imagine, if you will, that the Eastern Conference of the NBA did NOT adopt the shot clock while the Western Conference did. And that the NBA Finals were played with the home conference's rules. Or, that the Western Conference never adopted the 3-point shot, so any games played in those gyms were played without it? Sports evolve. It helps them stay relevant. The DH was a key evolution in baseball history that increased popularity, and its role continues to evolve today. Just like the pitchers hitting has continued to evolve. As time has gone on, teams have allowed their pitchers to place less and less emphasis on hitting for health and training concerns. I don't see that trend reversing, ever. Pitchers are just becoming more fragile AND more expensive at the same time as they are becoming more critical. If anything, teams are going to have pitchers focusing less on their hitting moving forward, not more. __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,077

10-03-2014, 03:53 PM	#42
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8807996	how do they prevent pitchers from becoming good hitters?
Posts: 29,110

10-03-2014, 03:56 PM	#43
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $3122662	Since 1973 when the DH was instituted in the AL there have been 40 WS played (no WS in 1994). The AL holds an advantage of 22-18. And you can thank the Yankees and their monster payrolls of yesteryear for almost 33% of those AL wins during that span. So yea AL baseball is surely a much superior game.
Posts: 69,190