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Old 08-17-2018, 08:13 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Elizabeth Warren’s Batty Plan to Nationalize . . . Everything

This is amazing and disturbing. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...oos-hard-left/





Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts has one-upped socialists Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: She proposes to nationalize every major business in the United States of America. If successful, it would constitute the largest seizure of private property in human history.

Warren’s proposal is dishonestly called the “Accountable Capitalism Act.” Accountable to whom? you might ask. That’s a reasonable question. The answer is — as it always is — accountable to politicians, who desire to put the assets and productivity of private businesses under political discipline for their own selfish ends. It is remarkable that people who are most keenly attuned to the self-interest of CEOs and shareholders and the ways in which that self-interest influences their decisions apparently believe that members of the House, senators, presidents, regulators, Cabinet secretaries, and agency chiefs somehow are liberated from self-interest when they take office through some kind of miracle of transcendence.

Under Senator Warren’s proposal, no business with more than $1 billion in revenue would be permitted to legally operate without permission from the federal government. The federal government would then dictate to these businesses the composition of their boards, the details of internal corporate governance, compensation practices, personnel policies, and much more. Naturally, their political activities would be restricted, too. Senator Warren’s proposal entails the wholesale expropriation of private enterprise in the United States, and nothing less. It is unconstitutional, unethical, immoral, irresponsible, and — not to put too fine a point on it — utterly bonkers.

It is also cynical. Senator Warren is many things: a crass opportunist, intellectually bankrupt, personally vapid, a peddler of witless self-help books, etc. But she is not stupid. She knows that this is a go-nowhere proposition, that she will be spared by the Republican legislative majority from the ignominy that would ensue from the wholehearted pursuit of this daft program. It is in reality only a means of staking out for purely strategic reasons the most radical corner for her 2020 run at the Democratic presidential nomination. The Democratic party in 2018, like the Republican primary electorate in 2016, is out for blood and desirous of confrontation. So Senator Warren is running this red flag up the flagpole to see who salutes.

To propose such a thing for sincere reasons would be ghastly stupidity. To propose this program for narrowly self-serving political reasons is the sort of thing that would end a political career in a sane and self-respecting state, which Massachusetts plainly is not and has not been for some time.

When the owners of Apple wish to hold on to their own after-tax earnings, they are denounced as greedy. When Elizabeth Warren wants to seize those earnings for her own use, what is that? It is covetousness, which is what you get when you have greed compounded with envy.

To those on the left who look at Senator Warren’s proposal and think that giving the government a stronger whip hand over American businesses is just the ticket, I would like to present four questions: Who is the president of these United States? Who is the majority leader in the Senate? Who is the speaker of the House? How would you evaluate the composition of the Supreme Court, either as it stands or after President Donald Trump has the opportunity to nominate another justice or two? The power you give the federal government will be there during Republican administrations, too. Any future populist demagogue who finds his way into the White House will have access to the same power. No one should be trusted with that kind of power.

And nobody who seeks that kind of power should be trusted with any power at all.

It is worth keeping in mind that the fabulous goose was slaughtered not in spite of the golden eggs but because of them. Politicians are covetous. When the owners of Apple wish to hold on to their own after-tax earnings, they are denounced as greedy. (Apple’s shareholders are corporately the largest taxpayer in the world.) When Elizabeth Warren wants to seize those earnings for her own use, what is that? It is covetousness, which is what you get when you have greed compounded with envy. Senator Warren, a former Sunday-school teacher, apparently has a keen appreciation for the vices that lurk in the human heart, and she intends to leverage them to her benefit.


Another thing about these kinds of proposals: They are, at heart, acts of cowardice. There are politicians who wish to provide benefits to certain constituents and who would like those benefits to be paid for by other parties who are politically disfavored. There is an easy way to do that: Tax x to subsidize y. The problem with doing that is embarrassment.

Politicians such as Senator Warren lack the courage to go to the American electorate and say: “We wish to provide these benefits, and they will cost an extra $3 trillion a year, which we will pay for by doubling taxes.” Why spend the money to subsidize, say, health insurance, when you can just pass rules that make businesses do the subsidizing for you? It’s a way to spend money without putting the expenditures on a budget line. It treats the productive capacity of the United States as a herd of dairy cows to be milked by Senator Warren et al. at their convenience. And, of course, Senator Warren and her colleagues get to decide how the milk gets distributed, too.

One wonders why American businesses put up with it.


They do not have to. Not really.

It is a fairly easy thing for an established American business to move its corporate domicile to some other country, as with all those corporate inversions in the pharmaceutical industry that gave the Obama administration the willies a few years ago. It is also a fairly easy thing for a new business being founded by Americans to incorporate in some other country from the beginning. There is no insurmountable reason for, say, Microsoft or Altria (formerly Philip Morris) to be domiciled in the United States. Silicon Valley’s competitive edge comes from people, and people are mobile.

Nearly half of the total sales of the S&P 500 businesses come from overseas customers. Many big U.S. manufacturers such as Caterpillar get more than half of their sales from abroad. Exxon, the target of a political jihad being conducted by Senator Warren’s party, gets more than half of its revenue from overseas sales. You can serve the growing Asian markets as easily from Singapore as from California or Virginia. Watching American cities scurry around to prostrate themselves before Jeff Bezos (pbuh) in the hopes of attracting the new Amazon campus has been amusing. Imagine Apple or Google doing that in a global search for a new home. Fanciful? Yes.

Fanciful today.


Businesses historically have chosen to locate in the United States for a number of reasons: It was long the world’s largest market, and businesses had faith in American law and the American dollar. It’s still a big market, and the dollar is still the world’s favorite currency. But if American law or American lawmakers are going to treat profit-seeking enterprises as an Enemy of the People — Zurich is pretty nice. Lots of places are. There are a lot of big American businesses with targets painted on their backs, and those that do not already have a Plan B are doing their shareholders a disservice.

The rogues’ gallery of those who sought to fortify their political power by bullying businesses is long, and it is sickening. Senator Warren now nominates herself to that list, at least in her aspiration. It is not an honorable aspiration.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:21 AM   #121
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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It's not a fallacy. It's right there in her very own words. You're getting worse. I didn't think that was possible. Impressive.
Your right. Its right there in one sentence. You seem to want to commit the fallacy that because she mentioned trillions one sentence that means she is always talking about trillions.

Good luck with that fallacy. Let me know when you want to have an honest discussion.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:22 AM   #122
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Hammer and LoneDOTY are onboard with Fauxcahontas' asset seizure and redistribution program.
This one is right up there with "America was never that great" in terms of election winning platforms.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:24 AM   #123
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I'm talking all executive's pay, not just CEO's.

And I believe their pay has gone up at the expense of employees.

Companies have been recording record profits without wage increases to employees. That money has been going to executives and shareholders.

Question for you: Do you have a job or have you ever held a job? If so, was "profit sharing" part of your compensation? No? Then what the hell are you bitching about?

Here's the deal - a "worker" is hired with the knowledge (and agreement) that he will perform assigned tasks for a period each day that is determined by the employer for a certain amount of money. He goes to his "job" each day and performs those tasks, takes his pay home to his family each week, or bi-weekly, or whatever and that is that.

However, in this day and age, those (like you) seem to believe that the "company" and their hierarchy OWE the employee something above and beyond the agreed to wage and benefits package that was agreed to in the beginning of the employment.

Do I personally believe that 90% of the executives and CEOs, CFOs, COOs, et al are worthless assholes? You bet. Most aren't worth 1% of their employment packages. Doesn't matter. I (nor you) serve on the Boards of these companies. We do not get to determine what they decide to pay their executives. That's between them and their choices to run their corporations.

Is it "out of whack"? Possibly. Doesn't matter, however. If YOU want to be rich and make those decisions that determine how your company profits (or doesn't) - well, sonny, it's too late for you. Worker bees are worker bees are worker bees. Or, as the axiom goes - "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer". Been going on for as long as people have been on the planet. It AIN'T changing.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:24 AM   #124
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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I guess they can go to another company that doesn't pay well.

I'm not sure where you guys think all these high paying jobs are. And I'm not sure how everyone unhappy with their jobs is going to be able to work there.
What I love is when they pull out that tired and sorry talking point with regards to food stamps.

"Just a different job!" completely unaware that who ever they hire next will be on food stamps. And the next person. And the next.

Maybe its the underpaying job and not the worker?

Bonus points that they never ever use that talking point when discussing right to work laws. You will never hear a conservative say "Well, if you don't want to pay union dues, don't work there."

Its almost like conservatives are full of shit and are just boot lickers.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:24 AM   #125
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I already know you have zero understanding of macro economics, you don't have to keep saying it.

/this post literally has nothing to do with what you were responding too
//get more money from other people whom I don't work for... WTF are you talking about?
Again, I have plenty of money. There was nothing in your post that really even raised a mouse fart of interest in me about why I should care about CEO pay versus drone pay. You'll note that's what I asked. Or not.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:25 AM   #126
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Hammer and LoneDOTY are onboard with Fauxcahontas' asset seizure and redistribution program.
This one is right up there with "America was never that great" in terms of election winning platforms.
Another idiot parrots talking points. Congrats.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
What I love is when they pull out that tired and sorry talking point with regards to food stamps.

"Just a different job!" completely unaware that who ever they hire next will be on food stamps. And the next person. And the next.

Maybe its the underpaying job and not the worker?

Bonus points that they never ever use that talking point when discussing right to work laws. You will never hear a conservative say "Well, if you don't want to pay union dues, don't work there."

Its almost like conservatives are full of shit and are just boot lickers.


When will you move to a minority neighborhood?
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #128
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Again, I have plenty of money. There was nothing in your post that really even raised a mouse fart of interest in me about why I should care about CEO pay versus drone pay. You'll note that's what I asked. Or not.
And I answered. And you proved having a complete ignorance of marco economics.

Hey, its your life, not everyone wants to understand economics. But that just means your opinion is very irrelevant.

/I didn't expect you to actually address any of what I said, so no worries. We both knew you couldn't
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #129
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Your right. Its right there in one sentence. You seem to want to commit the fallacy that because she mentioned trillions one sentence that means she is always talking about trillions.

Good luck with that fallacy. Let me know when you want to have an honest discussion.
I guess your special needs is acting up more than normal here. Again:

But over the last decade, big American companies have dedicated 93% of earnings to shareholders - redirecting trillions of dollars that could have gone to workers or long-term investments. The result is that booming corporate profits and rising worker productivity have not led to rising wages.

"There's a fundamental problem with our economy. For decades, American workers have helped create record corporate profits but have seen their wages hardly budge. To fix this problem we need to end the harmful corporate obsession with maximizing shareholder returns at all costs, which has sucked trillions of dollars away from workers and necessary long-term investments," said Senator Warren. "My bill will help the American economy return to the era when American companies and American workers did well together."


So, she's bitching that trillions have gone to shareholders, and not to workers and long-term investments, right? Twice.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:28 AM   #130
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since everyone is equal in this country, I want more money. So I'm just going to apply for the next executive position when it comes up on Monster.com.

I mean, the average workers' skill and qualifications are the same as an executive and all.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:29 AM   #131
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Imagine, Wal mart workers being able to advocate at the corporate level for better pay so the government doesn't have to redistribute billions in tax payer money in the form of food stamps to subsidize Wal Marts labor costs.
If this happened, I can see the headlines now:

“Walmart cuts all cashier’s for self checkout; lays off thousands to provide raise to workers.”
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:29 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And I answered. And you proved having a complete ignorance of marco economics.

Hey, its your life, not everyone wants to understand economics. But that just means your opinion is very irrelevant.

/I didn't expect you to actually address any of what I said, so no worries. We both knew you couldn't
What's marco economics?

Anyway, I fully understand what you wrote, and already knew it. But, like I said, I just don't care because it really doesn't affect me. I guess you could try to argue that I SHOULD care because of the drones, but I don't.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:30 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Jim Hammer View Post
I'm talking all executive's pay, not just CEO's.

Ans I believe their pay has gone up at the expense of employees.

Companies have been recording record profits without wage increases to employees. That money has been going to executives and shareholders.
OK, all executives. My position is the same.

Why do you think workers were strong enough to demand a larger share 50 years ago than they are today? Some of it surely has to do with the impact of cheap foreign labor, but I'm interested in your answer. Here's my thinking:

First, foreign competitors take advantage of that labor, making it hard for US businesses with high labor costs to compete. US automakers used a very well paid (in hindsight, many would say overpaid) workforce until competition from Japanese and other foreign car makers forced US companies to reduce costs. The unions were forced to make significant concessions to keep their companies viable. The workers are still well paid, but it's not like it used to be.

And, of course, when the cheap labor flows into the US, the immigrants drive down wages directly.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:36 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I guess your special needs is acting up more than normal here. Again:

But over the last decade, big American companies have dedicated 93% of earnings to shareholders - redirecting trillions of dollars that could have gone to workers or long-term investments. The result is that booming corporate profits and rising worker productivity have not led to rising wages.

"There's a fundamental problem with our economy. For decades, American workers have helped create record corporate profits but have seen their wages hardly budge. To fix this problem we need to end the harmful corporate obsession with maximizing shareholder returns at all costs, which has sucked trillions of dollars away from workers and necessary long-term investments," said Senator Warren. "My bill will help the American economy return to the era when American companies and American workers did well together."


So, she's bitching that trillions have gone to shareholders, and not to workers and long-term investments, right? Twice.
Your right.

she say trillions with regards to over a decade. (Important context you ignore).

Now, where does she say trillions with regards to reinvesting in the American worker?

/over a decade should be a pretty big hint, let's see if you figure it out
//I doubt its you'll just double down on your fallacy
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:37 AM   #135
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I don't concern myself with what others are making. I worry about what I am making.

I also don't want to be paid equally with everyone else. That's because I know that I have cultivated valuable job skills for myself, and that I can outwork and outperform others, so I want to be paid based on what I can do rather than some entitlement-based pay scheme. If you are a high performer in your profession then that's always what you want.
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