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Old 02-13-2018, 11:59 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Comey: Flynn didn't actually lie

... he just ran out of money

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Old 02-15-2018, 03:01 PM   #16
Shaid Shaid is offline
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1. Mueller had a chance to secure the sentencing of Michael Flynn and bag his first conviction. But he didn't. He asked the court, instead, for a 90-day delay (May 1). Why? Democrats can't explain it.

2. Yesterday, it was reported that Comey told lawmakers that Flynn didn't actually lie to the FBI, and that any inaccuracies were unintentional.

3. Today, Mueller filed a motion for "a protective order governing the production of discovery" by the Flynn team. He is basically sharing everything he has with the Flynn team. This is a huge hand tip by Muller, because Flynn's team can share this information with anyone connected to the case (Trump?). This move signals that Mueller believes Flynn is innocent and is giving him the tools to prove it. Mueller is working with the Flynn team to exonerate him.



Why is Mueller taking actions that have the potential completely upend his investigation and implicate FBI agents? There is no way to stress enough the significance Mueller sharing all his evidence with the Flynn team, and everyone directly connected to Flynn's case.
If he thought Flynn wasn't guilty, why wouldn't he just drop the charges rather than just slipping his team the info so he could battle it in court? This has the feel of.......

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Old 02-15-2018, 03:14 PM   #17
Taco John Taco John is offline
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I don't understand what you are angling for with your post, but when a man is charged with a crime in a highly political environment, the best thing they can do is face trial and acquit themselves in a court of law so that the politics can be muted and the person can achieve full exoneration.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:27 PM   #18
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If Mueller doesn't think Flynn is guilty, why would he handfeed him the info to prove it rather than just dropping the charges? Common sense says that Mueller would prefer to drop the charges on his own rather than lose in court. What we know is that Flynn's team stopped all communications with Trump's team after taking the plea deal. Now suddenly this new motion grants access to more info.

Does that mean suddenly Flynn, who took the deal to work with Mueller, now suddenly starts to feed Trump's team info? If so, is it just selectively chosen info so Trump's team chooses a certain narrative in his defense? He did file this motion to delay 90 days immediately after Trump's team started to delay the meeting with Mueller. It's definitely interesting.

Maybe it's only what you are saying but you are telling me with the ridiculous amount of documents that they have on Flynn, they don't have anything on him? We'll see how this all turns out.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:41 PM   #19
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>If Mueller doesn't think Flynn is guilty, why would he handfeed him the info to prove it rather than just dropping the charges?

I think it's because Mueller has a sense of honor, knows Flynn is innocent, and wants him to have his day in court. That's the only reason that I can come up with for why Mueller would do what he's doing now. If there is an alternative explanation, it probably defies logic.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:53 PM   #20
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I think Mueller has a sense of honor as well, which is why he'd just drop the charges. There's more at play here.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:58 PM   #21
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I think Mueller has a sense of honor as well, which is why he'd just drop the charges. There's more at play here.
I just disagree. The best way to fulfill honor here is to do what Mueller has done: release all the files to Flynn's legal team and give him the ammo he needs to fight the charges and achieve full exoneration in a court of law. I do agree that there is more at play here.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:05 PM   #22
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Meh Mueller is required to provide everything. The Defense is just wanting to make sure they are now aware of everything. If they want to set the plea aside they could. The lying charge was always defensible, but the other charges is probably why the plea was struck.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:06 PM   #23
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Well, Flynn did eventually plead guilty to one count of lying to them, even though the FBI at the time did not believe he had lied about anything.

The FBI was wiretapping these conversations, and they found nothing about them to be unlawful. The FBI never claimed that Flynn had lied to them in those interviews. Maybe he lied by claiming, because of the optics at the time, that they didn't discuss sanctions when they did - even though it would not be illegal for him to have done so.

The Obama admin's AG tried to use a piece of 18th century legislation that has never been used to prosecute anyone as a pretext to investigate him. And when that turned up nothing, they still went ahead trying to build a sinuous argument that he had violated an ancient statute that was signed into law by the 2nd president, which he clearly did not, or he wouldn't be pleading to a single lying count.
Wow, you have literally gone insane.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:13 PM   #24
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Meh Mueller is required to provide everything. The Defense is just wanting to make sure they are now aware of everything. If they want to set the plea aside they could. The lying charge was always defensible, but the other charges is probably why the plea was struck.
If Mueller is required to provide everything, then why is he just now filing a motion with the court to do it (well after Flynn has plead guilty, and after filing to delay sentencing)?
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:24 PM   #25
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If Mueller is required to provide everything, then why is he just now filing a motion with the court to do it (well after Flynn has plead guilty, and after filing to delay sentencing)?
The motion is to prevent Flynn's counsel from sharing what is provided with Trump, the press etc.. Mueller knows he can not stop them from receiving everything.
So most likely Flynn's lawyers demanded to see if certain press reports are accurate. Again the defense can always set things aside if the prosecution was aware of exculpatory evidence and it was not provided. Given that a lot of exculpatory things have leaked out, the defense is probably demanding a look at everything to determine if they want to set things aside and or whether there is mitigating things for the sentencing court should be made aware
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:49 PM   #26
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Now you're just making bad guesses.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:57 PM   #27
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Now you're just making bad guesses.
What do you believe is wrong?

1) the motion for protective order= we will give you everything, you just can't disclose it to third parties.

2) If the defense wants something, they are entitled to it.

3) Prosecutors are required to provide exculpatory evidence. If they have something that may show someone is innocent they need ot provide it.

4) There have been a lot of potentially exculpatory things that has come out in the press. Has all of it been provided? Given the motion, we will provide these things to you as long as it is protected, I am guessing not. Doubtful the Page texts were, doubtful notes that Comey testified about were, the warrants on how they obtained some of the evidence all of a sudden are looking more exculpatory.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:52 PM   #28
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You can give the information to third parties that are involved in your case.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:26 PM   #29
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"Innocent until you go broke and have to cop to a plea deal so that the prosecutor can protect his reputation..."
Yup.

And a damn shame when it happens to an upstanding, upper class, white guy instead of one of those people...
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:17 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
>If Mueller doesn't think Flynn is guilty, why would he handfeed him the info to prove it rather than just dropping the charges?

I think it's because Mueller has a sense of honor, knows Flynn is innocent, and wants him to have his day in court. That's the only reason that I can come up with for why Mueller would do what he's doing now. If there is an alternative explanation, it probably defies logic.
You should speak with a few lawyers.

Wait scratch that I mean psychiatrists, yes psychiatrists, that might be a help with the delusions Russia keeps selling you.
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