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Old 04-12-2017, 08:32 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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The decline of our cites. Sadly this sort of act is not unusual anymore

Our cities continue to decline into third world status. Once we used to read of tribal behaviors and warlords in far off exotic lands. Now its available here at home on any given day.




http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ing/100284846/

Detroit police are poring over Facebook videos that show dozens of people cheering, laughing and videotaping a brawl between women that ended in a double stabbing.

The fight, which reportedly started over a parking space, happened Sunday evening at Rouge Park on the city’s northwest side, 6th Precinct Cmdr. Aric Tosqui said.

“It’s unfortunate that we as a society find entertainment in these kind of things,” Tosqui said. “In this case, people got hurt while everyone else stood around and filmed it instead of doing something.

“The case is under investigation, but one of the victims is uncooperative,” Tosqui said. “There were several videos posted to Facebook. We’ll be working with Facebook to gather all the videos so we can determine exactly what happened, and who was involved.”

Monday, police arrested two women, ages 21 and 22, in connection with the stabbings, Sgt. Adam Madera said.

One of the victims, a 30-year-old woman, was listed in stable condition in an area hospital. Police are working to identify the other victim, who reportedly drove away from the scene in a black Buick.

The police report was logged at 9 p.m. Sunday, although it’s unclear when the fight started.

One of the Facebook videos reviewed by The Detroit News begins with two women trading blows, as a crowd closes in on them; most of the onlookers filmed the fight amid the sound of cheers. Some stood on vehicles in an apparent attempt to get a better view of the fight.

The stabbings were not captured in the video reviewed by The News.
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:38 PM   #121
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:33 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Detroit sucks because it's Detroit.

There are good cities that are thriving because of smart public investment. Illegal immigration is barely a blip on the radar. Lack of welfare and social services is a bad thing because it means more homeless and mentally ill on the streets. Lacking transportation infrastructure is a huge deal because it discourages development which leads to density which increases safety dramatically.

There's a great article on salon if I can find it when I get home about small towns vs big cities. I've lived in both. Small towns are unsympathetic to welfare because in a small town, the poor can get by. In a big city they end up on the streets. I agree that illegals drain the economy of a small city. They don't impact big cities nearly as much. You don't need public transportation nearly as much in a small town.

The problem is when cities tell small towns they need these investments (or when federal dollars are used on it) but it's also small towns believing their values work in the big city. They are run totally different. The irony is that while people on their typical targets of poor people and immigrants, the real reason Detroit fell was because of the fall of the private sector auto industry and the corrupt government support of it. The big 3 lost jobs to Asia competitors and built wildly unsustainable benefits and pensions. Welfare, immigration, etc... Are such a tiny blip compared to that.
Well look here. Another problem that can be solved by taking income away from esrners and investing in urban blight repair. History shows this is a winner. Only in the minds of the progressive left does this work. It didnt work under the project building of the 60s and it wont work now.

Your comment re "lack of welfare and social services" is esily one of the more ignorant comments read in some time.

Transportation infrastructure? Really? Look at KC, we have a streetcar named stupid. It goes from a place people dont go to a place people avoid. Lets do more of that. St Louis has light rail. The gem in the eye of liberals that has fallen on its ass from Seattle to StLou. And exactly where will your new idea go that will rescue Prospect, Troost, and the Paseo? You are a dreamer if you think a snazzy new taxpayer funded zipline will bring urban renewal and gentrification to the war zones of any city.

I've lived in Indianapolis, Chicago, Denver, and KC. You can lecture someone else on you experiances in small and big towns. You have zero understanding of the complex societal differences between the two. The dynamic of poor and not poor in small towns does not support criminal acts, abandonment of family values and acceptance and defence of criminal enterprise. Ferguson is not uniqe nor is Chicago and Detroit.

Detroit did not fall because of GM, Ford, and Chrysler failing. They are still building cars just not in Detroit. And no one will invest in a major way when the laboyr force is drugged up and can't read. Im sure you have looked at total employment numbers in the auto building and support industries and can back up your job losses to asia....actually you probably dont want to.

And do post the Salon piece. I'll bet its grand
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:24 PM   #123
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Well look here. Another problem that can be solved by taking income away from esrners and investing in urban blight repair. History shows this is a winner. Only in the minds of the progressive left does this work. It didnt work under the project building of the 60s and it wont work now.

Your comment re "lack of welfare and social services" is esily one of the more ignorant comments read in some time.

Transportation infrastructure? Really? Look at KC, we have a streetcar named stupid. It goes from a place people dont go to a place people avoid. Lets do more of that. St Louis has light rail. The gem in the eye of liberals that has fallen on its ass from Seattle to StLou. And exactly where will your new idea go that will rescue Prospect, Troost, and the Paseo? You are a dreamer if you think a snazzy new taxpayer funded zipline will bring urban renewal and gentrification to the war zones of any city.

I've lived in Indianapolis, Chicago, Denver, and KC. You can lecture someone else on you experiances in small and big towns. You have zero understanding of the complex societal differences between the two. The dynamic of poor and not poor in small towns does not support criminal acts, abandonment of family values and acceptance and defence of criminal enterprise. Ferguson is not uniqe nor is Chicago and Detroit.

Detroit did not fall because of GM, Ford, and Chrysler failing. They are still building cars just not in Detroit. And no one will invest in a major way when the laboyr force is drugged up and can't read. Im sure you have looked at total employment numbers in the auto building and support industries and can back up your job losses to asia....actually you probably dont want to.

And do post the Salon piece. I'll bet its grand
I am looking for the article but for some reason can't find it. I think it was Salon but not sure. Despite what you might think, it was as much a criticism of progressive politics as it was conservative populism.

The difference between you and me is, I'm not going to use hyperbole or spout out partisan talking points. How can you talk about Detroit without talking about the fall of the Big 3? That's a conservative talking point because the union basically sacked Detroit, then re-sacked them again by begging for a bailout. It's by 8 miles the biggest reason Detroit is in its current state.

Right, my comment about welfare is really ignorant. I'm sure cutting all welfare and social services won't lead to increased homelessness, drug addiction, and mental illness. And none of those things leads to crime. Considering you were the one that is so detached from reality that you didn't see how a $300 epi pen ruined lives, I don't expect you to understand the conditions of the poor and working poor. I am frustrated with the inefficiency and corruptness of welfare and social services, but I'm not naive about why it's needed in the city.

Just because you don't like a street car doesn't make it an indictment on public transportation. I don't love street cars either. But are you serious that you think urban renewal can occur without public transportation? Without public transportation, developers can't lure businesses in and they know they can't build urban residentials without building an adjacent gigantic parking garage. If you live in the city, then maybe you'd notice that advanced cities have good ride sharing, bike sharing, well constructed bike lanes, etc.... And that many cities lose billions in tourist $'s/convention $'s because of a lack of transportation options. Or that many issues in poor communities occur because of complete lack of transportation to a decent grocery store or hospital.

Again, a conservative talking point... Chicago is failing because of rampant government corruption. Detroit is failing because of unions that sank the big 3. Many manufacturing based cities like Cleveland failed because of progressive policy that over-protected labor while simultaneously engineering corrupt deals to ship labor away. If you want to talk about gentrification, government corruption, over-regulation, etc.... of progressive city governments sure. You can do that without the over-generalization that all cities are failing or pointing out 1 or 2 examples of crimes as if that's representative of every day life in Philadelphia or Dallas or Minneapolis. If you want to talk about how federal spending and even state spending has favored the big city and left small towns behind, agree with that too, and generally am not a fan of a lot of federal spending measures. Last I checked, small town America showed up to the polls in droves because government forgot about them. Even if I don't support Trump's positions, I understand why they think that way and they are completely correct.
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:46 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I am looking for the article but for some reason can't find it. I think it was Salon but not sure. Despite what you might think, it was as much a criticism of progressive politics as it was conservative populism.
So tell us what conservative populism in Detroit did. Before you start, define it properly and not your own self-serving idea of it.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:04 PM   #125
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No one suggests cutting all welfare. You hyperbole that we lack welfare and social services spawned my point...own you post and dont get butthurt when challenged. Its not a zero sum game here.

Public transportation exists in every city. They have these big things called busses. Are you saying if we have a cooler more trendy thing the inner city will prosper? Really?

Try again. Your solutions have failed over and over.

Fact is you wont move into the hood. Nor will I. And If a corp said they want to and ask for a bit of help on the taxpayer dime, the left/race industry will scream its gentrification and shut it down.

The hood will continue to fall into decline until the residents actually stand up and set things right. Until then we will see enclaves of good people hold praer vigils for the kids and mommas killed by tweakers and dealers.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:39 PM   #126
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So tell us what conservative populism in Detroit did. Before you start, define it properly and not your own self-serving idea of it.
The article didn't say conservative populism destroyed big cities like Detroit. Like many articles, it stated that conservative populism rose out of anger from small towns because they were being ignored. Even the most liberal press seems to acknowledge that there's good reason for the anger.

The argument against conservative populism has nothing to do with Detroit. The article goes on to blame the movement for the rise in white nationalism, etc... which I think is misguided. But I do agree that in searching for answers, conservative populists are looking to the wrong places for blame. Minorities and welfare recipients aren't stealing jobs. Bad government and corporations are public enemy #1 & 2. And I don't agree with the populists bitching about welfare, yet adamantly defending entitlements, applauding multi-trillion dollar artificial infrastructure investments, and applauding extreme versions of protectionism which are often basically a variation of welfare.

Which is why I take exception when someone cherrypicks a few examples of big city horrors to claim big cities are collapsing, then uses canned conservative talking points. Big cities aren't blighted. They're hoarding federal dollars at the expense of small towns if anything.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:07 PM   #127
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No one suggests cutting all welfare. You hyperbole that we lack welfare and social services spawned my point...own you post and dont get butthurt when challenged. Its not a zero sum game here.
I never said we lacked welfare. I am saying you are arguing for cities to drastically cut welfare and social services, as if that will somehow help crime rates.

Quote:
Public transportation exists in every city. They have these big things called busses. Are you saying if we have a cooler more trendy thing the inner city will prosper? Really?

Try again. Your solutions have failed over and over.

Fact is you wont move into the hood. Nor will I. And If a corp said they want to and ask for a bit of help on the taxpayer dime, the left/race industry will scream its gentrification and shut it down.

You think gentrification is getting shut down because of race baiters? I don't think you have a pulse at all of how cities are working. Gentrification is alive and well and it's being primarily pushed by the left.

The hood will continue to fall into decline until the residents actually stand up and set things right. Until then we will see enclaves of good people hold praer vigils for the kids and mommas killed by tweakers and dealers.
I don't know what point you're trying to make. You claim urban blight but you're basically characterizing a city by its worst neighborhoods. And you're stereotyping every city as if they're all like Detroit. If we want to talk about how you get those poor neighborhoods thriving again, that's a totally different conversation. If your entire thread is only talking about the hoods, then you might want to revisit your wording. There are plenty of thriving cities with some of the worst hoods.

Are you serious? Busses? That's public transportation of the past. Many bad neighborhoods are the result of government purposefully shutting off the neighborhoods access to major transportation arteries -- it's lack of good transportation that got them there, and it's lack of transportation that makes it impossible to get out. Many in poor neighborhoods can't get decent groceries, and that has a correlation with kids doing bad at schools and adults suffering from expensive health issues.

In downtowns, lack of public transportation, not race baiters, are the biggest roadblock to development. Downtowns without public transportation have surface lot oceans because workers get pissed when you take away their parking, and residents won't move downtown if they can't stash their car somewhere, and businesses don't want to move downtown unless you promise a 10-story parking garage. You can't incentivize developers to build there. Big cities don't have these parking issues because workers and residents don't need their car everywhere they go.

Sure, the hood has its problems. Like small towns, they have every right to be mad at government, and they have some reasons to blame themselves too. And small towns have their own massively growing problems with drugs and tweakers.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:48 PM   #128
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I never said we lacked welfare. I am saying you are arguing for cities to drastically cut welfare and social services, as if that will somehow help crime rates.


I don't know what point you're trying to make. You claim urban blight but you're basically characterizing a city by its worst neighborhoods. And you're stereotyping every city as if they're all like Detroit. If we want to talk about how you get those poor neighborhoods thriving again, that's a totally different conversation. If your entire thread is only talking about the hoods, then you might want to revisit your wording. There are plenty of thriving cities with some of the worst hoods.

Are you serious? Busses? That's public transportation of the past. Many bad neighborhoods are the result of government purposefully shutting off the neighborhoods access to major transportation arteries -- it's lack of good transportation that got them there, and it's lack of transportation that makes it impossible to get out. Many in poor neighborhoods can't get decent groceries, and that has a correlation with kids doing bad at schools and adults suffering from expensive health issues.

In downtowns, lack of public transportation, not race baiters, are the biggest roadblock to development. Downtowns without public transportation have surface lot oceans because workers get pissed when you take away their parking, and residents won't move downtown if they can't stash their car somewhere, and businesses don't want to move downtown unless you promise a 10-story parking garage. You can't incentivize developers to build there. Big cities don't have these parking issues because workers and residents don't need their car everywhere they go.

Sure, the hood has its problems. Like small towns, they have every right to be mad at government, and they have some reasons to blame themselves too. And small towns have their own massively growing problems with drugs and tweakers.
Ok. Whatever. Maybe you will grow up. Maybe you wont. Reality sucks to you. Go play Captain America with the cool kids.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:59 PM   #129
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Ok. Whatever. Maybe you will grow up. Maybe you wont. Reality sucks to you. Go play Captain America with the cool kids.
And maybe you'll get with the times and stop proposing buses as a primary modern transportation option for a major city.

I happily live in the city as do many people I know. It's news to me that cities are blighted. It's a real bummer to see all these new restaurants, shops, events, and lots of convenient ways to get from point A to B. That reality sure sucks to me.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:08 PM   #130
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And maybe you'll get with the times and stop proposing buses as a primary modern transportation option for a major city.

I happily live in the city as do many people I know. It's news to me that cities are blighted. It's a real bummer to see all these new restaurants, shops, events, and lots of convenient ways to get from point A to B. That reality sure sucks to me.
Is the form of conveyance that critical for your need to move from point A to point B? And your POV is the sweet cool parts of the city. Not the hood where babies die while you and your kewl friends have salads at the new wine bar by the bike shop. New resturaunts, shops and event spaces are far from the reality of the single baby momma with 3 little ones by two dudes she never really knew and tomorrow is another day of struggle while you live it up.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:49 PM   #131
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It amazes me that people bash what goes on in the cities while ignoring what happens or is happening in small town USA. I have lived in big cities and grew up and now live back in that small town, both have of alot of issues.

I have probably been to the vast majority of small towns in MO and the company I work for has offices and provides services in these small towns and let me tell you they are mostly shit holes. Almost all these small towns have alot of seniors and white trailer park trash using meth and pumping out kids so they can get welfare. Yeah they don't have the violent crime (though that is increasing some) but drug use is rampant as is property crimes and sex offenders.

If it wasn't for Walmart in some of these places they wouldn't or shouldn't exist.

Hell, I live in Clinton, which is a little over 9,000 people and the city\county has been run by Republicans for 20 years. Every year there is always multiple tax increase proposals on the ballot and they were able to sneak 3 new taxes this year on the April ballot that got passed. But this town is going down hill. There use to be all these nice big houses on one of the main streets but all the people died or moved and since there isn't any high paying jobs no can buy these houses so they are all falling apart. We have empty buildings everywhere and most new business fail big time here. If Tracker\Capri move shop it is lights out for this place. But the people won't move they will stay here and continue to use drugs and pump out more kids. It is white trailer park trash city up in here and all the rich people moved out in the woods.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:54 PM   #132
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Oh dirk. Its nothing like that. But carry on.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:08 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Oh dirk. Its nothing like that. But carry on.
You know what I said is true.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:11 PM   #134
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
45, 46, 47....
 
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
It amazes me that people bash what goes on in the cities while ignoring what happens or is happening in small town USA. I have lived in big cities and grew up and now live back in that small town, both have of alot of issues.

I have probably been to the vast majority of small towns in MO and the company I work for has offices and provides services in these small towns and let me tell you they are mostly shit holes. Almost all these small towns have alot of seniors and white trailer park trash using meth and pumping out kids so they can get welfare. Yeah they don't have the violent crime (though that is increasing some) but drug use is rampant as is property crimes and sex offenders.

If it wasn't for Walmart in some of these places they wouldn't or shouldn't exist.

Hell, I live in Clinton, which is a little over 9,000 people and the city\county has been run by Republicans for 20 years. Every year there is always multiple tax increase proposals on the ballot and they were able to sneak 3 new taxes this year on the April ballot that got passed. But this town is going down hill. There use to be all these nice big houses on one of the main streets but all the people died or moved and since there isn't any high paying jobs no can buy these houses so they are all falling apart. We have empty buildings everywhere and most new business fail big time here. If Tracker\Capri move shop it is lights out for this place. But the people won't move they will stay here and continue to use drugs and pump out more kids. It is white trailer park trash city up in here and all the rich people moved out in the woods.
Just think if you lived in Chicago...
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:24 PM   #135
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
Just think if you lived in Chicago...
Been to Chicago twice, nice place to visit but I couldn't live there. To many people and to much traffic. They wouldn't have to kill me either I would probably kill myself.
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