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Old 04-12-2017, 08:32 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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The decline of our cites. Sadly this sort of act is not unusual anymore

Our cities continue to decline into third world status. Once we used to read of tribal behaviors and warlords in far off exotic lands. Now its available here at home on any given day.




http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ing/100284846/

Detroit police are poring over Facebook videos that show dozens of people cheering, laughing and videotaping a brawl between women that ended in a double stabbing.

The fight, which reportedly started over a parking space, happened Sunday evening at Rouge Park on the city’s northwest side, 6th Precinct Cmdr. Aric Tosqui said.

“It’s unfortunate that we as a society find entertainment in these kind of things,” Tosqui said. “In this case, people got hurt while everyone else stood around and filmed it instead of doing something.

“The case is under investigation, but one of the victims is uncooperative,” Tosqui said. “There were several videos posted to Facebook. We’ll be working with Facebook to gather all the videos so we can determine exactly what happened, and who was involved.”

Monday, police arrested two women, ages 21 and 22, in connection with the stabbings, Sgt. Adam Madera said.

One of the victims, a 30-year-old woman, was listed in stable condition in an area hospital. Police are working to identify the other victim, who reportedly drove away from the scene in a black Buick.

The police report was logged at 9 p.m. Sunday, although it’s unclear when the fight started.

One of the Facebook videos reviewed by The Detroit News begins with two women trading blows, as a crowd closes in on them; most of the onlookers filmed the fight amid the sound of cheers. Some stood on vehicles in an apparent attempt to get a better view of the fight.

The stabbings were not captured in the video reviewed by The News.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:03 PM   #61
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What are your parameters then? You gave nothing specific.
Want to make a bet on, "They have to look like me"?
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:05 PM   #62
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I think a rough outline of a person we should admit would be

-They follow the legal process in all points
-They have never been in the country illegally
-They are proficient in English and meet a minimum educational standard, such as having a bachelor's degree or some sort of accreditation in a skilled trade.
-They pass a stringent background examination
-They are ineligible to ever be on public benefits
-They have secured employment prior to admission, and agree to leave if they are unable to maintain similar or better employment
-If the employer shows (by a process which needs to be greatly improved) that they are not able to place a qualified domestic worker in the position
-If the foreign worker is documented as being paid the same as a domestic worker would have been, if one had been available
-If foreign person maintains a completely clean criminal record

Perhaps more could be added. The process should be a breeze for desirable parties which will provide economic benefit, and closed to the rest.
Ivan the immigrant comes in, following every one of your requirements, using up his money in the process. He gets a job at WidgetCo.

Three weeks after he arrives, WidgetCo is bought out by GadgetCo, and the downsized Ivan cannot immediately find work. If he can't use public funds, and he can't afford to either live here, or return home, without assistance, will you be his second at the Seppuku ceremony?

I ask because HCF was so stupid as to try equating vacation travel with permanent immigration, so I figure all manner of hyperbole is now on the table.

Last edited by Just Passin' By; 04-12-2017 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:06 PM   #63
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I think a rough outline of a person we should admit would be

-They follow the legal process in all points
-They have never been in the country illegally
-They are proficient in English and meet a minimum educational standard, such as having a bachelor's degree or some sort of accreditation in a skilled trade.
-They pass a stringent background examination
-They are ineligible to ever be on public benefits
-They have secured employment prior to admission, and agree to leave if they are unable to maintain similar or better employment
-If the employer shows (by a process which needs to be greatly improved) that they are not able to place a qualified domestic worker in the position
-If the foreign worker is documented as being paid the same as a domestic worker would have been, if one had been available
-If foreign person maintains a completely clean criminal record

Perhaps more could be added. The process should be a breeze for desirable parties which will provide economic benefit, and closed to the rest.

Ok.

The problem is, the Left doesn't care about any of that, nor does big biz or the ethnic lobbies or the DNC or GOPe. So none of that will ever get passed (let alone implemented). They'll just call it "racist!" and compare it all to literacy tests of the 1800s


Either you're with me, full shutdown, or you're with Maxine Waters. That's no exaggeration.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:10 PM   #64
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Ok.

The problem is, the Left doesn't care about any of that, nor does big biz or the ethnic lobbies or the DNC or GOPe. So none of that will ever get passed (let alone implemented). They'll just call it "racist!" and compare it all to literacy tests of the 1800s


Either you're with me, full shutdown, or you're with Maxine Waters. That's no exaggeration.
You and Maxine are more the same than you eeven know
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:12 PM   #65
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What I learned in this thread:

Donger is a piece of crap?
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:12 PM   #66
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I have to wonder about JPB's lineage.
Be assured it intertwines.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:14 PM   #67
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
You'd have to understand why the labor participation rate is lower than ever to understand my response, i suppose.
I do understand it. Again, if you actually think your position through, you'll understand why you've undercut your own argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
By numerous measures that I described, that person's presence has benefited the Unite States... unless you are using another measure.
I don't buy your claim to start with. I'll leave it there, for now.

Quote:
A productive person who works, earns, spends money and supports themselves without government assistance is good for the economy, regardless of what passport they carry.
is meaningless. It's at once both too loose and too restrictive.
  • How does one define productive?
  • Why is work necessary for the person to be good for the country, or even good for the economy? Are you claiming a housewife can't be good for the economy?
  • Why is earning and spending money necessary?
  • How are we defining government assistance, and why is a lack of reliance upon it a requirement for making the country better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
It's one data point in a broad range of data points illustrating that this person has been a benefit by paying into the system and contributing to the economy, not spending a life drawing from it.
It's a perfect highlight as to the weakness of your position.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:15 PM   #68
Donger Donger is offline
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
What I learned in this thread:

Donger is a piece of crap?
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I'm am become death. The destroyer of Americas.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:21 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
Ivan the immigrant comes in, following every one of your requirements, using up his money in the process. He gets a job at WidgetCo.

Three weeks after he arrives, WidgetCo is bought out by GadgetCo, and the downsized Ivan cannot immediately find work. If he can't use public funds, and he can't afford to either live here, or return home, without assistance, will you be his second at the Seppuku ceremony?
If Ivan can't find comparable work within some reasonable period, he should return to his country of origin. If he is financially unable to do so, it would probably be in the United States' interests to flip him an airline ticket. (United, if you prefer)
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:23 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
is meaningless. It's at once both too loose and too restrictive.
  • How does one define productive?
  • Why is work necessary for the person to be good for the country, or even good for the economy? Are you claiming a housewife can't be good for the economy?
  • Why is earning and spending money necessary?
  • How are we defining government assistance, and why is a lack of reliance upon it a requirement for making the country better?

It's a perfect highlight as to the weakness of your position.
Because the discussion is whether we should have no immigration, unfettered immigration, or selectively allow immigration in cases where the immigrant would benefit the United States.

I'm quite curious as to why specifically you think the person I described does not provide any benefit to the United States.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:26 PM   #71
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
If Ivan can't find comparable work within some reasonable period, he should return to his country of origin. If he is financially unable to do so, it would probably be in the United States' interests to flip him an airline ticket.
So, you're already changing the rules, and giving government assistance to the immigrant. How far down this road to we have to go before you wake up?

One Ivan isn't important. The problem is that we're not talking about just one Ivan.

Quote:
2015 - 1,051,031 people are granted lawful permanent residence in the United States.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/06/us/imm...cs-fast-facts/

1,016,518 were granted lawful permanent residence in the U.S. in 2014.

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-stat...alization/2014

We're looking at more than a million Ivans per year. A nation of more than 300 million people, especially one with something in the neighborhood of 90 million out of the work force, has no business importing over a million people a year.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:33 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
So, you're already changing the rules, and giving government assistance to the immigrant. How far down this road to we have to go before you wake up?
Describing the expense of removing someone from the country as equivalent to them living on government assistance is laughable and absurd.


Quote:
1,016,518 were granted lawful permanent residence in the U.S. in 2014.

We're looking at more than a million Ivans per year. A nation of more than 300 million people, especially one with something in the neighborhood of 90 million out of the work force, has no business importing over a million people a year.
None of this is relevant to the points I am making, because few of those people would have qualified under the structure I support.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:44 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Describing the expense of removing someone from the country as equivalent to them living on government assistance is laughable and absurd.
If someone had done that, you might have a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
None of this is relevant to the points I am making, because few of those people would have qualified under the structure I support.
The numbers I gave were of people who followed the law and came here legally. Surely you would acknowledge that they are being allowed in because the U.S., at least in theory, is considering them to be beneficial to the country. That's the overview of what you required.

Here are the basics

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/gre...rd-eligibility

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/...L/SLB/act.html

We're allowing more than a million people a year into the country, granting them permanent residency. How many do you consider an acceptable number, and how are you going to handle the issues such as family members?
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:49 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
You and Maxine are more the same than you eeven know
You and Maxine want to commit demographic warfare vs the GOP base and install DNC hegemony. You're more alike than you even know, despite you hiding behind the word "legal" immigration.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:56 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
If someone had done that, you might have a point.
You characterized giving someone a plane ticket out of the country so they could self-deport as being on government assistance, when I obviously meant that they should be required to maintain employment and not simply live here collecting a check.

Quote:
The numbers I gave were of people who followed the law and came here legally. Surely you would acknowledge that they are being allowed in because the U.S., at least in theory, is considering them to be beneficial to the country.
I reject that premise completely. They are being allowed in because politicians want them to be allowed in, without regard for any of the details of their individual cases.

Yes, I know. I am intimately familiar with this process.

Your first link merely describes the requirements for obtaining a permanent status. You don't seem to understand that admitting someone to the country (issuing some type of visa) does not "allow them into the country, granting them permanent residency". The process to adjust to a permanent status is a completely different, long, and expensive process.

Your link to the The Hart–Celler Act is not relevant to my position at all. You seem to be upset about people who wouldn't be admitted under a quota or a skills-based system, such as those immigrating with special statuses upon which there are no statutory limits.

You have still yet to explain why, under no circumstances, can a person who is not a US citizen benefit the United States by living and working here.
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