Bob Sutton has gifted us with the best third-down defense in football

[Hammock Parties]

Now he just has to figure out first and second down.

[O.city]

Someone broke down the drives on twitter against the 9ers, but they were 2 plays from giving up 14 fewer points. Hitchens makes a tackle on 3 and 16 they punt, Jones doesn't jump offsides on 3 and 5 they punt.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

I agree with what you are saying, yes Murray and a few others should not be out there. Veech has dropped the ball on this secondary.

So when the 49ers had 3rd and long on us- they lined up on the first down marker attempting to keep it all in front. They blitzed or rushed 5 to take away Mahomes time back there and they shut us down several times with that strategy. Yes, Mahomes burned them too because he has a huge arm.

Sutton didn't defend the line of scrimmage like that at all. Face it, we are dead last in points allowed and giving up yards at a record pace. Sutton deserves to shoulder this- it is his job!

Okay - this is just wrong.

He didn't have them lined up at the marker; he gave them about an 8 yard cushion on 3rd and 16. And both Fuller and Hitchens converged on Kittle 8-10 yards short of the first down marker. Sutton dialed up the right play on both 2nd AND 3rd downs on that drive and had the damn drive stopped.

But the guy that's supposed to be the best tackler in the LB corps and the guy that's supposed to be the best tackler in the secondary - who BOTH had a shot at a lumbering TE - both failed.

There is absolutely no way you can credibly place the blame for that play on Sutton. He did exactly what he should have done there and it worked out perfectly...until his players failed again. Because that is ROUTINELY what his players have done.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Someone broke down the drives on twitter against the 9ers, but they were 2 plays from giving up 14 fewer points. Hitchens makes a tackle on 3 and 16 they punt, Jones doesn't jump offsides on 3 and 5 they punt.

SUTTON TOLD JONES TO JUMP!!!!

The blitz he dialed up that stunted Ford and put him right in Garrapolo's lap (I think that was the Jones play) was just outstanding. It's exactly what Sutton has shown a willingness and an ability to do. But his players ****ed up again because that's what they've done all year.

There was another 3rd and 8 or so where the ballcarrier should've been stopped for 3 and I think it was Parker who just bounced off him for the 1st.

Now I'll say this - there's an argument a team that plays this poorly in zone should stop calling zone coverages. It's not a bad argument. But here's the thing - you stop doing that and you leave yourself open to what I was talking about earlier - plays where Vance McDonald trucks your mediocre tackling safety and rumbles for 75 yards. When you're playing with a 3 score lead, you cannot allow that to happen. So in those circumstances, going to a zone is an eminently reasonable decision.

And the fact that the defense has actually played quite well anytime the score has been close (what was that stat? 2.49 yards per play when the game is within a score?) suggests that he's doing exactly that. But when the score is lopsided and you know you have iffy players who aren't assignment sound all across your defense, it's playing with fire to try to do that for a whole game.

So he picks his spots and as a general rule, it's working when it needs to.

I swear, 'Sutton Sucks!' is just a habit for people right now. I'm not sure if Sutton is good at the moment but ****, you can't grade him on anything we've seen to this point because these failures have been dictated by score/clock as well as abysmal execution by his players.

[Jimmya]

We can't grade Sutton? Even with 2 of the worst defensive collapses in NFL history? Hmmmm

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by bobbything

Unless we start forcing turnovers, or the offense continues to score 30+ per game, this will be like the second half of 2003. .

No, it won't.

Trent Green couldn't throw on the run to save his life.

And that defense had no one like Houston, Jones, Ford, Hitchens or Fuller.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Okay - this is just wrong.

He didn't have them lined up at the marker; he gave them about an 8 yard cushion on 3rd and 16. And both Fuller and Hitchens converged on Kittle 8-10 yards short of the first down marker. Sutton dialed up the right play on both 2nd AND 3rd downs on that drive and had the damn drive stopped.

But the guy that's supposed to be the best tackler in the LB corps and the guy that's supposed to be the best tackler in the secondary - who BOTH had a shot at a lumbering TE - both failed.

There is absolutely no way you can credibly place the blame for that play on Sutton. He did exactly what he should have done there and it worked out perfectly...until his players failed again. Because that is ROUTINELY what his players have done.

So you are talking about the Play Kittles looked like Jim Brown- yes that is on poor tackling. We were scared to tackle him all day for some reason. Tight Ends have feasted on us.

My point was Sutton's lack of getting off the field when we have the other team at 3rd and Forever. Teams have less than a 10% chance normally being 20 yards out and yet we give up 1st downs at 90%?

Sutton complete lack of aggressive calls gets old. Rushing 3 guys never works and Sutton does it a lot. You give any QB that much time and he will get a first down. No Pressure Sutton needs to go. He has Never been able to close games out. You can blame the players- but ultimately it falls on him and then Andy because they are the coaches of this historically bad defense.

[RunKC]

This is a play I’m curious about. I’m wondering where the backside contain is suppose to be for the boots and cutbacks #JacobsEyeInTheSky pic.twitter.com/8LafgmtYok

— Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) September 25, 2018

This is so maddening. Backside contain is such a basic part of defense. Bailey has to execute this.

Goddamn this is a 2 yard gain at best if Bailey simply does his job here and covers the back end.

Execution has to be better

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I mean, every single drop of evidence to the contrary, I guess you're right.

When Bob Sutton had actual players in his defense who were explosive and/or assignment sound, he was the architect of one of the most aggressive blitzing teams in football and was routinely playing super-aggressive press-man coverage on the outside. Is it your position that he simply forgot about all that? You think Andy burned the game tapes or something?

No, Sutton is not dropping guys because he wants to do it that way. He's dropping guys because he HAS to do it that way. And when you bitch about the long conversions you're disregarding just how ungodly awful this team is at tackling. He had plays dialed up that would've stopped at least 2 of those long conversions last week had 1 of 2 guys just made a goddamn tackle.

Sutton's doing what his personnel and his offense say he should be doing. But he doesn't have anyone that can create a turnover (which is what the blitzing would help him with) and he doesn't have anyone that can actually finish a play. He can't blitz when his CBs aren't going to snag an errant pass without holding and aren't going to make a tackle if they end up in a 1 on 1 situation in space. They'll end up getting Conte'd like that poor bastard last night and a 13 yard gain goes off for 75. And of course you'll be the first person to blame Sutton for leaving a man isolated on a poor tackling team. Because evidently it's just his fault for not putting 13 guys on the field.

I mean shit, Nelson's holding for no reason to erase interceptions in the end zone. Scandrick is holding for no reason and erasing defensive scores. They're getting the QB to roll one direction and then chasing their coverage assignment across the field so they're abandoning backside zones for easy completions.

This is blown assignments and a bunch of guys who don't have a nose for the football. Murray, Nelson and Scandrick are not ball-hawks. Fuller's average and Parker's lost a step. Hitchens isn't a coverage backer. They aren't a team that's going to generate a bunch of turnovers because that's just not who their personnel dictates they'll be. They are a team that has to play assignment sound, fundamentally strong football. They have to be where they're supposed to be and make the tackle when they get there.

They're doing neither. That's not on Sutton. And with his history as a guy who prefers aggressive man coverage out wide and exotic blitzes up front, I have no idea how you can argue that this is what he WANTS to be doing. But with 2-3 score leads and iffy personnel anywhere, of course this is what he is resorting to.

So why is it that Sutton's players have a long history now of not knowing where to be on the field? So much miscommunication every game. Guys wide open for easy scores. Middle of the field- wide open on 3rd and Long? Are these players just so ****ing dumb they go out there and run around like idiots? Or do they truly not understand what Sutton is trying to do?

We changed out half the defense and they still don't line up right, stupid penalties, poor tackling, out of position, hell they can't even finish off sacks (Murray) - to me, this screams POOR COACHING!

Where are the consequences- why isn't Sutton running over and screaming at Scrandrip and telling him to stop holding, why isn't Jones getting some coaching to stop jumping off sides and lining up in the neutral zone?

Andy and Sutton just stand there and never say shit about anything. I don't think the players respect Sutton and they obviously don't understand his plays or what he is trying to accomplish out there. There is no leadership at all on defense and that starts with Sutton.

It is the chicken and egg to infinity. Great that Sutton calls a good play once in a while, but if the players fail- he should be over there chewing their asses and making dammed sure they don't keep making the same stupid mistakes every game for years now. We can't expect All Pro's at every position on defense to make Sutton's plays work, he needs to coach these guys up and get their best game out of them. Something Sutton has Never been able to do, even when we have a 38 point lead in the Playoffs.

[Jimmya]

1000% agree with halfcan!

[Hammock Parties]

lowest blitz percentage in the league

sutton is playing it safe

[Strongside]

How much of this is due to the fact that we just never really hold anyone to third down?