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Old 06-15-2016, 06:34 PM  
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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O.J.: Made in America

Someone posted a link about it in a thread about the FX docudrama.

I've watched the first three episodes. To this point it is one of the greatest documentaries I've seen and sets the standard for an analysis of the intersection of race, class, and celebrity in America.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:03 PM   #91
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So despite all of that in bold, you believe he was guilty? Talk about giving in to board peer pressure to appease some on this board......Speak your mind. If you don't think he was guilty, say it. None of us were there. Nobody can call anybody's position stupid.
As I stated earlier, I think he was most certainly involved in the murders of Ron and Nicole. But I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around the prosecution's version of the events, in which OJ viciously murdered two human beings between 10:25 and 10:40 on June 12, 1994 but only left a trace of blood and zero witnesses, along with doing it silently.

He wasn't a trained assassin or a former Navy Seal or a mercenary. He was a 48 year old dinged up man with arthritic hands and knees with scar tissue throughout his body.

Another thing that's always been odd to me is the silence. Witnesses in Brentwood stated that their windows were open, which is common in Los Angeles and even more common the nearer you are to the ocean, yet all one witness heard was a dog barking?

No vehicle speeding off into the night, no screams?
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:03 PM   #92
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I think this, in a nutshell, is the crux of the documentary. Under normal circumstances, the trial should have been a no-brainer, open and shut case. But these weren't normal circumstances due to OJ's celebrity status and it was the perfect storm due to riots, Rodney King, etc.


Yep, normally you just string em up, right?
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:05 PM   #93
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To me what makes the whole OJ case interesting and sad at the same time is how crazy stupid our legal system can be.

--The accused murderer had his blood and both victims blood in his car, house and drive way and the seen of course. Claimed he cut his finger and just walked around letting bleed.
-- A woman saw him hauling ass in his car right after the murder but that info was never used in court.
-- He mysterious lost a bag that he took to the airport while making his get away. He wrote what sounds like a confession note that was read on the air.
-- He went crazy and tried to run in his Bronco from the cops with a gun in his hand with a costume to hide his identity that he bought two weeks prior to the murder. Claimed he was going to Nicole's grave

People have gone to prison over tiny drops of blood as DNA proof but in this case is was splattered all over the place and the juror's were actually stupid enough to let the defense convince them that the LAPD planted it all the evidence even though they had never done shit to him after the numerous 911 calls they got from Nicole for him beating her up. Now all of sudden in a span of like and hour everyone involved got top together and said "Let's frame OJ". The jurors were also duped into the contaminated evidence bullshit.

All of this happened not long after Rodney King got his ass kicked so the black jury in this case really didn't care because OJ is black. Just set him free for all black people was the theme. The defense messed up plenty but the stupidity of the jury is mind blowing. Furman screwed the pooch bad but how does him being an asshole mean OJ is innocent? Only in America would it be possible for OJ to have walked in this case and all I did was point out a small amount of the evidence. There was a lot more.
Yep, and don't forget about the idiot judge (judge Ito?) who completely let things get out of hand in the courtroom. It was a clown circus, not a trial. I strongly condemn the black community for celebrating the release of a homicidal maniac because they think it somehow makes things right or better for their perceived injustices of other court cases like Rodney King.

The prosecution was a joke, the judge was a joke, and the defense lawyers were the ring leaders. Total miscarriage of justice.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:08 PM   #94
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There's plenty of blame to go around, sure.

Question is, how much more of a compelling case, competently investigated and expertly presented, do you think the prosecution should be required to deliver to overcome the observations I made?
How much more? "Enough" more.

Look, it's the job of the state -- which means cops/prosecutors -- to present the jury with a case that establishes that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Where the cops help CREATE a reasonable doubt, through their own stupidity, incompetence or outright improper conduct, they are undermining the ability to obtain a conviction, no matter how guilty the accused might ACTUALLY be.

The system puts the onus on the state, as it should. And the state ****ed up royally.

Would THAT jury at THAT point in time have acquitted him no matter how good the evidence was? Even if the cops were perfect? Sure, maybe, but we'll certainly never know becuase the cops made it pretty goddamn easy for a jury that was already inclined to acquit him to acquit him.

Compare to Aaron Hernandez, where the evidence was completely circumstantial, and yet so overwhelming, and so meticulously and carefully presented to the jury, that they found him guilty despite Hernandez having truly excellent defense lawyers.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:10 PM   #95
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I have a question for you and the other lawyers:

In school and in practice, what are the extents you are taught and told to go to in order to defend a client?

Cochran's closing argument was, to me, revolting. What would a law school professor say about his presentation? What would the general profession's perception be of defense tactics? When are you expected to hold back?
Depends on the field, the situation and who's doing the teaching.

But the short answer is to whatever extent allowed by law (and the cannons of professional responsibility). I think Cochran's close was acceptable. Scorched earth, yes, but as near as I can tell, nothing illegal, unethical or improper.

Now if you look at Jose Baez's close in the Casey Anthony trial, it should have been grounds for prosecutors to request an immediate mis-trial and have the whole thing re-tried. Baez introduced facts and theories that had not been introduced as evidence; it was wholly inappropriate. Baez should've been sanctioned for that particular bit of horseshit. Cochran didn't do that, he just threw out a bunch of static and the jury failed to see through it.

The best theory I've ever found for defending parties you're almost certain are guilty has nothing to do with the defendant but rather the system in general. As an adversarial system, is it absolutely imperative that each side receive the best, most complete defense possible. Guilty or not, our adversarial system operates at its highest only when all sides are being equally represented.

If you are a defense attorney, you feel its your duty to the system to present your client with the absolute strongest defense possible. Because if you've done that, you've ensured that you have done everything in your power to ensure that the system runs at full stroke.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:11 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
As I stated earlier, I think he was most certainly involved in the murders of Ron and Nicole. But I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around the prosecution's version of the events, in which OJ viciously murdered two human beings between 10:25 and 10:40 on June 12, 1994 but only left a trace of blood and zero witnesses, along with doing it silently.

He wasn't a trained assassin or a former Navy Seal or a mercenary. He was a 48 year old dinged up man with arthritic hands and knees with scar tissue throughout his body.

Another thing that's always been odd to me is the silence. Witnesses in Brentwood stated that their windows were open, which is common in Los Angeles and even more common the nearer you are to the ocean, yet all one witness heard was a dog barking?

No vehicle speeding off into the night, no screams?
There's a theory that it was OJ and Nicole's son who killed them. I read this theory somewhere on line and it makes almost too much sense. It closes a lot of the holes up. I, personally, think it's very possible the son did the killing and OJ is just covering for him. If, this is indeed the case, I can sympathize with OJ just a hair more, but not much.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:13 PM   #97
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As I stated earlier, I think he was most certainly involved in the murders of Ron and Nicole. But I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around the prosecution's version of the events, in which OJ viciously murdered two human beings between 10:25 and 10:40 on June 12, 1994 but only left a trace of blood and zero witnesses, along with doing it silently.

He wasn't a trained assassin or a former Navy Seal or a mercenary. He was a 48 year old dinged up man with arthritic hands and knees with scar tissue throughout his body.

Another thing that's always been odd to me is the silence. Witnesses in Brentwood stated that their windows were open, which is common in Los Angeles and even more common the nearer you are to the ocean, yet all one witness heard was a dog barking?

No vehicle speeding off into the night, no screams?
Timeline, his condition and lack of blood in the Bronco given the gruesome scene. Furman going over fence after being taken off the case? Why? to plant the glove? A couple of perfectly placed specs of blood don't mean shit to me. Where are the bloody clothes? As you say, silently? No way. Just goes to show you that the LAPD has done that type of thing before. I think people on here are admitting that it appears the LAPD planted some shit. So the jury shouldn't take that into consideration also? I can read between the lines. Mostly black jury = stupid in a lot of these racists minds. I know how some of ya'll are on here.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:16 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Depends on the field, the situation and who's doing the teaching.

But the short answer is to whatever extent allowed by law (and the cannons of professional responsibility). I think Cochran's close was acceptable. Scorched earth, yes, but as near as I can tell, nothing illegal, unethical or improper.

Now if you look at Jose Baez's close in the Casey Anthony trial, it should have been grounds for prosecutors to request an immediate mis-trial and have the whole thing re-tried. Baez introduced facts and theories that had not been introduced as evidence; it was wholly inappropriate. Baez should've been sanctioned for that particular bit of horseshit. Cochran didn't do that, he just threw out a bunch of static and the jury failed to see through it.

The best theory I've ever found for defending parties you're almost certain are guilty has nothing to do with the defendant but rather the system in general. As an adversarial system, is it absolutely imperative that each side receive the best, most complete defense possible. Guilty or not, our adversarial system operates at its highest only when all sides are being equally represented.

If you are a defense attorney, you feel its your duty to the system to present your client with the absolute strongest defense possible. Because if you've done that, you've ensured that you have done everything in your power to ensure that the system runs at full stroke.
Thanks.

The part that I wonder about is what is the "strongest defense possible"? Obviously, you don't want the state colluding with the defense, but, in Cochran's case, is invoking the Holocaust and directly comparing Fuhrman to Hitler during his close the responsibility of the jurors to see through? Can the prosecution object to bullshit like that presented during a close? Can the judge censure him?
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:17 PM   #99
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Timeline, his condition and lack of blood in the Bronco given the gruesome scene. Furman going over fence after being taken off the case? Why? to plant the glove? A couple of perfectly placed specs of blood don't mean shit to me. Where are the bloody clothes? As you say, silently? No way. Just goes to show you that the LAPD has done that type of thing before. I think people on here are admitting that it appears the LAPD planted some shit. So the jury shouldn't take that into consideration also? I can read between the lines. Mostly black jury = stupid in a lot of these racists minds. I know how some of ya'll are on here.
Black defendant = Just another innocent victim framed by the system in a lot of you racists minds [sic].

See? Pretty easy game to play.

You know what you know and by God that's all you need know...
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:18 PM   #100
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Face it, if the prosecution and LAPD ****ed up as most of you say, was the jury supposed to convict anyway?
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:18 PM   #101
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As I stated earlier, I think he was most certainly involved in the murders of Ron and Nicole. But I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around the prosecution's version of the events, in which OJ viciously murdered two human beings between 10:25 and 10:40 on June 12, 1994 but only left a trace of blood and zero witnesses, along with doing it silently.

He wasn't a trained assassin or a former Navy Seal or a mercenary. He was a 48 year old dinged up man with arthritic hands and knees with scar tissue throughout his body.

Another thing that's always been odd to me is the silence. Witnesses in Brentwood stated that their windows were open, which is common in Los Angeles and even more common the nearer you are to the ocean, yet all one witness heard was a dog barking?



No vehicle speeding off into the night, no screams?
A trace of blood? At the scene there was obviously a ton of it and his Bronco had more than just a trace of it smeared everywhere. There also was a witness that saw him hauling ass away from the direction of the scene. He almost ran into Jill Shively's car going around a corner but the defense didn't use her as a witness nor her statement in the trial. He parked the Bronco on the backside of his property away from the driveway to avoid the limo driver seeing him drive up and climbed over the wall. Kato heard him and the limo driver saw him in the driveway according to their testimony.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:19 PM   #102
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Black defendant = Just another innocent victim framed by the system in a lot of you racists minds [sic].

See? Pretty easy game to play.

You know what you know and by God that's all you need know...

No, if they hadn't "****ed up" as a lot of you admit, there would be no reason to think that. The trial was watched through a lot of different lenses. There will always be 2 Americas.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:21 PM   #103
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Face it, if the prosecution and LAPD ****ed up as most of you say, was the jury supposed to convict anyway?
If they did not have reasonable doubt about his actual guilt.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:22 PM   #104
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I don't know why everybody is bitchin anyway. If the case was so strong, why try to frame him even further? Van Nater admitting that he took a vial of blood from OJ when he turned himself in over to the scene? That shit isn't suspicious to you? Why would he do that shit?
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:23 PM   #105
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If they did not have reasonable doubt about his actual guilt.


There was plenty of reasonable doubt. Cochran kicked ass.
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