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Old 05-11-2018, 07:18 AM  
AMDChief AMDChief is offline
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The "Nones" Now Outnumber White Evangelicals

Americans With No Religion Greatly Outnumber White Evangelicals



It’s relatively well-known that the portion of the U.S. population with no religious affiliation has been steadily increasing recently. And for those paying attention to research, it’s also been obvious for a while that conservative evangelicals were beginning to lose “market share” after years of mocking their mainline Protestant cousins of “dying” because of insufficiently rigorous theology and moral strictures.

But now comes a new set of data from years of polling by ABC News and the Washington Post that puts these trends together in a way that might bust some old preconceptions. Between 2003 and 2017, the percentage of adult Americans professing “no religion” grew from 12 percent to 21 percent. And at the same time, the portion of the population made up by white evangelicals dropped from 21 percent to 13 percent. Indeed, the white evangelical population dropped even faster than the white non-evangelical population (which shrank from 17 percent to 11 percent), and the two groups are converging in size.

Among younger Americans, the trends are even starker. In 2003, only 19 percent of adults under 30 professed “no religion.” That percent rose to 35 percent in 2017. That’s compared to only 22 percent who identify with any sort of Protestantism.

When you consider the political power of the different types of believer and unbelievers, these numbers are hard to credit. Recently four members of the U.S. House of Representatives formed a “Freethought Caucus,” dedicated, among other things, to defense of “atheists, agnostics, humanists, seekers, religious and nonreligious persons” against discrimination. Yet those white conservative evangelicals who are now significantly outnumbered by the “nonreligious” have one of the two major political parties catering to them relentlessly; they are also uniformly thought to represent the political “base” for the president of the United States.

If the irreligious ever get serious about flexing their muscles politically, a lot could change in this country, particularly on church-state separation issues. In the meantime, white evangelicals need to get a more realistic sense of their own trajectory, and stop lording it over other people of faith who share their less-than-robust membership trends.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...n-america.html

Last edited by AMDChief; 05-11-2018 at 07:26 AM.. Reason: forgot link
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Its almost like this has followed the trend in the drop in morality in this country.
What do you consider the morals that have dropped. By all measures crime and divorce rates are on a downward trend in spite of fewer practicing religion. Since morality is not universal, I would ask what fits into this releam?
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Its almost like this has followed the trend in the drop in morality in this country.
Drop in morality? Do you have evidence to support this assertion?
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:10 PM   #18
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No, but if you are going to include a prayer to a culturally diverse audience of nurses, your ****ing prayer shouldn't start with "almighty Yahwe". Everything does not revolve around your special little book.
So by this logic, we shouldnt accommodate any group's religion/belief, etc......just a blanket policy to ensure we dont end up having to build exceptions/accommodations for all the 1%ers/outliers, right?

I'm ok with that - if that approach goes both ways (gender and bathrooms, for example).
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by DJJasonp View Post
So by this logic, we shouldnt accommodate any group's religion/belief, etc......just a blanket policy to ensure we dont end up having to build exceptions/accommodations for all the 1%ers/outliers, right?

I'm ok with that - if that approach goes both ways (gender and bathrooms, for example).
I mean the decent thing to do is not include activities that alienate people. This thread is about the growing number of nonbelievers. So by holding an invocation for a group that statistically has more people than not who do not practice your religion, it's just awkward. It's certainly not 1% you are accommodating, and people definitely wouldn't give a shit if you stopped waxing poetic about Yahweh at these gatherings.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:33 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BigBeauford View Post
I mean the decent thing to do is not include activities that alienate people. This thread is about the growing number of nonbelievers. So by holding an invocation for a group that statistically has more people than not who do not practice your religion, it's just awkward. It's certainly not 1% you are accommodating, and people definitely wouldn't give a shit if you stopped waxing poetic about Yahweh at these gatherings.
I understand where you're coming from - and I'm not entirely averse to it.

My point is, it seems there is a large population of the left who want it both ways when it comes to these sorts of things. So there's a tad bit of inconsistency, and dare I say it, hypocrisy.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:44 PM   #21
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You're seeing evangelical numbers drop, and they have been for a long time, because people are calling BS on what evangelicals are doing and saying.

Personally I think a lot of it is built around the idea that most fundamentalist type churches teach the bible as final authority, and people struggle with the idea of a book with so many contradictions and scientific errors (it's thousands of years old, of course we have a different understanding of science today). It's hard to believe God put men into a trance and they wrote this stuff down and somehow this book is like an instruction manual God gives us to get to heaven - when it contradicts itself. If it was written that way wouldn't it all point in the same direction? If it was an instruction manual would it be confusing?

There's a lot of other churches (a lot of times the word Emergent is used) who place Jesus as the model and look at what he said, taught and did as to what they follow.

It's actually super interesting stuff if you're like me and grew up in the church. When you start seeing this new thing God is doing it's like going from black and white tv's to the flat panel 4k stuff we watch on today. So much more beauty, grace and wonder everywhere, and it's so much more inclusive than what I grew up in.

Of course, people who see things in the fundamentalist way can't see what I'm describing and they simply label us as liberals or heretics. We don't mind the labels, but it does hurt when they try to destroy you because you're seeing things differently than they do.

Personally, I think the movement of the church away from the evangelical political movement is a good thing. Maybe not Luther nailing the letter on the door big, but every 500 years or so something massive happens in the church world, and we're due...
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:45 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BigBeauford View Post
What do you consider the morals that have dropped. By all measures crime and divorce rates are on a downward trend in spite of fewer practicing religion. Since morality is not universal, I would ask what fits into this releam?
Wait wut? Divorce? It's pretty high in this country and more get divorced more than once.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:50 PM   #23
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Wait wut? Divorce? It's pretty high in this country and more get divorced more than once.
Divorce rates are way down. I just read something like 80% of first marriages make it. The numbers suck from all the folks who get married 5/6/7 times.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:57 PM   #24
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Divorce rates are way down. I just read something like 80% of first marriages make it. The numbers suck from all the folks who get married 5/6/7 times.
This is actually true. I've also seen these reports.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bewbies View Post
You're seeing evangelical numbers drop, and they have been for a long time, because people are calling BS on what evangelicals are doing and saying.

Personally I think a lot of it is built around the idea that most fundamentalist type churches teach the bible as final authority, and people struggle with the idea of a book with so many contradictions and scientific errors (it's thousands of years old, of course we have a different understanding of science today). It's hard to believe God put men into a trance and they wrote this stuff down and somehow this book is like an instruction manual God gives us to get to heaven - when it contradicts itself. If it was written that way wouldn't it all point in the same direction? If it was an instruction manual would it be confusing?

There's a lot of other churches (a lot of times the word Emergent is used) who place Jesus as the model and look at what he said, taught and did as to what they follow.

It's actually super interesting stuff if you're like me and grew up in the church. When you start seeing this new thing God is doing it's like going from black and white tv's to the flat panel 4k stuff we watch on today. So much more beauty, grace and wonder everywhere, and it's so much more inclusive than what I grew up in.

Of course, people who see things in the fundamentalist way can't see what I'm describing and they simply label us as liberals or heretics. We don't mind the labels, but it does hurt when they try to destroy you because you're seeing things differently than they do.

Personally, I think the movement of the church away from the evangelical political movement is a good thing. Maybe not Luther nailing the letter on the door big, but every 500 years or so something massive happens in the church world, and we're due...
Really nice post. I think if I ever found a congregation like this I would probably consider joining the fold. I need to pump the brakes sometimes with my disdain for fundamental religious zealots, and living in a dark ages state like Kansas has really soured my outlook on organized religion.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:26 PM   #26
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Americans With No Religion Greatly Outnumber White Evangelicals



It’s relatively well-known that the portion of the U.S. population with no religious affiliation has been steadily increasing recently. And for those paying attention to research, it’s also been obvious for a while that conservative evangelicals were beginning to lose “market share” after years of mocking their mainline Protestant cousins of “dying” because of insufficiently rigorous theology and moral strictures.

But now comes a new set of data from years of polling by ABC News and the Washington Post that puts these trends together in a way that might bust some old preconceptions. Between 2003 and 2017, the percentage of adult Americans professing “no religion” grew from 12 percent to 21 percent. And at the same time, the portion of the population made up by white evangelicals dropped from 21 percent to 13 percent. Indeed, the white evangelical population dropped even faster than the white non-evangelical population (which shrank from 17 percent to 11 percent), and the two groups are converging in size.

Among younger Americans, the trends are even starker. In 2003, only 19 percent of adults under 30 professed “no religion.” That percent rose to 35 percent in 2017. That’s compared to only 22 percent who identify with any sort of Protestantism.

When you consider the political power of the different types of believer and unbelievers, these numbers are hard to credit. Recently four members of the U.S. House of Representatives formed a “Freethought Caucus,” dedicated, among other things, to defense of “atheists, agnostics, humanists, seekers, religious and nonreligious persons” against discrimination. Yet those white conservative evangelicals who are now significantly outnumbered by the “nonreligious” have one of the two major political parties catering to them relentlessly; they are also uniformly thought to represent the political “base” for the president of the United States.

If the irreligious ever get serious about flexing their muscles politically, a lot could change in this country, particularly on church-state separation issues. In the meantime, white evangelicals need to get a more realistic sense of their own trajectory, and stop lording it over other people of faith who share their less-than-robust membership trends.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...n-america.html

Now THAT is a leftist wet dream! If, in fact it's true. And, unfortunately, it may well be.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:30 PM   #27
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Divorce rates are way down. I just read something like 80% of first marriages make it. The numbers suck from all the folks who get married 5/6/7 times.
Of course marriage rates are down and children out of wedlock is up. So not really sure it is a great basis to compare generations morality.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:33 PM   #28
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We keep talking about the ambiguity of surveying "evangelicals", but it's not hard to believe the "nones" are growing. The mainline protestant denominations that liberalized have been shrinking precipitously for some time and almost all those people go to "none".

My belief, observationally, is that "nones" are definitely the fastest growing group, and that the rate at which catholicism and liberal protestant denominations are shedding members is accelerating. Most of those congregations are elderly today, and many will be totally gone in 20 years.

But conservative or "evangelical" congregations are not shrinking, they are generally still growing. There are a lot of reasons why the market share might be going down, immigration is a primary factor there IMO, because most immigrants to the US seem to be Catholics or Muslims. But I don't think there are fewer conservative evangelicals than there were 20 years ago, there are more.

As the political climate becomes more hostile to religion, nominals who don't want to be maligned will disassociate, but those who are fervent will align more closely together. The most notable trend that I think has been happening in the last 10 years in evangelicalism is people moving from (generally orthodox but) moderate evangelical congregations to more conservative ones.

It's a lot like the rest of the climate in this country, more polarization, the collection of most everyone at either end of the spectrum with very few people anywhere in between the trenches.

I would concur. I am older than 95% of the posters on this board. I recall a time (in the 50s and 60s) when parents took their children to Church EVERY Sunday. I have watched over the years as Church after Church has shuttered their doors and ceased to exist.

I don't know if it is a sign of the times, necessarily, but Church attendance has dropped dramatically over the years. Children grow up and decide that it's not for them. They raise their children without the Church and, naturally, the children know little to nothing about ANY Church.

Public Schools that even whisper the word "God" are sued, Teachers are fired, and God help a Coach or players who wish to offer up a prayer before or after a game. The Boy Scouts of America and the Girl Scouts of America - organizations that were based on Christian fundamentals are now unrecognizable.

So, bottom line - I don't know that "Church" will be in anyone's lexicon in another 45 years. But right now - it seems highly unlikely. And we have no one but ourselves to blame.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:35 PM   #29
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Of course marriage rates are down and children out of wedlock is up. So not really sure it is a great basis to compare generations morality.

I'd say that is one of the major reasons that divorces are down. Great morals.... It's a perfect comparison of a generations morality (or rather lack of).
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:45 PM   #30
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I'd say that is one of the major reasons that divorces are down. Great morals.... It's a perfect comparison of a generations morality (or rather lack of).
I mean if decreased rates of marriage and increased rates of children out of wedlock are your barometer for morality, we probably shouldn't touch some of the civil rights atrocities committed during the 50's and prior.
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