Home Discord Chat
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > Nzoner's Game Room

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2018, 12:45 PM  
The Franchise The Franchise is offline
Most Valuable Villain
 
The Franchise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Casino cash: $3415047
The Raiders have a Gruden problem

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nf...gruden-problem

It’s important to remember that Jon Gruden, Oakland’s $100 million retread of a head coach, wasn’t hired to make personnel decisions. Those duties, at least in theory, should fall in the hands of long-time GM Reggie McKenzie. But in looking at Oakland’s offseason transformation, it would be naïve to think McKenzie is running the show. Gruden’s fingerprints are all over the Raiders’ new roster and that’s a problem.

We knew the Raiders were taking a risk in bringing back Gruden, who last coached in the NFL with Tampa Bay in 2008. In his heyday, Gruden was lauded as a coaching prodigy. He lived up to that label by winning Super Bowl XXXVII, becoming the youngest head coach in history (at the time) to hoist the Lombardi Trophy. But Gruden has never made it back to the big game—in fact, he hasn’t won a playoff game in two tries since reaching his apex in 2002.

While many remember Gruden as an offensive mastermind, his coaching record, particularly during his seven-year run in Tampa (he went just 57-55) says otherwise. The 54-year-old has rehabbed his image in subsequent years with his stellar analysis on Monday Night Football as well as his enlightening Quarterback Camp series on ESPN. He may have been an engaging television personality—hence his endorsements with Bridgestone, Corona, Dunkin Donuts and Hooters, among others—but Gruden was merely an average NFL coach the first time around. Even his lone Super Bowl came on the strength of a stacked roster he inherited from Tony Dungy.

Giving full roster control—and $100 million—to an average-at-best coach who hasn’t been behind an NFL sideline in a literal decade seems like a reckless misstep for a team that looked like it was finally onto something after making the playoffs in 2016. But here we are, living in Gruden’s warped football dystopia, where long-snappers and converted fullbacks reign supreme.

Let’s look at the damage, shall we? Gruden did get one thing right this offseason. While not necessarily an upgrade on T.J. Carrie, who departed in free agency, Rashaan Melvin was a solid addition to the Raiders’ secondary. A late bloomer, the 28-year-old was in the midst of a career year with Indianapolis in 2017 before a nagging hand injury cut his season short. But aside from that peace offering, Oakland’s offseason has been one head-scratcher after another.

Exhibit A: Doug Martin. It’s true that Martin was a first-team All-Pro with the Bucs in 2015. It’s also true that he has statistically been the league’s worst running back over the last two seasons, finishing dead last in yards per carry in both 2016 and 2017. On top of that, Martin turned 29 in January (that’s still younger than incumbent, Marshawn Lynch) and is coming off a PED suspension that cost him the first three games of 2017. The fact that Martin has a legitimate chance to start next season would be reason enough to question Gruden’s judgment, but it gets worse. Rather than staying the course with Michael Crabtree, who has led the Raiders in receiving touchdowns each of the last three seasons, Oakland sent the former first-round pick packing and replaced him with an even older Jordy Nelson, who is coming off a career-worst year in Green Bay.

Breno Giacomini did more than earn PFF’s worst tackle grade last season. He earned PFF’s worst grade of ANY player at any position. DeShone Kizer, Brett Hundley, Breshad Perriman—all of them looked like world-beaters compared to the Hindenberg known as Breno Gomes Giacomini. Naturally, he’s the current front-runner to start at right tackle for Oakland. And while division-rival Kansas City was putting the finishing touches on a three-year deal with playmaker Sammy Watkins, the Raiders were busy making Andrew DePaola one of the league’s highest-paid long-snappers. Neat.

How about Keith Smith? Ever heard of him? He’s a former linebacker who logged 128 snaps at fullback for the Cowboys last year. By the grace of God, the Raiders decided to give him a two-year, $4.2 million (*immediately spits out drink*) contract. Oakland already had an established fullback in Jamize Olawale (he’s since been traded to Dallas), but when Keith Smith is available, you don’t walk to sign that man—you RUN. The same goes for Josh Johnson, a 31-year-old journeyman the Raiders signed to compete with Connor Cook for backup reps behind starting quarterback Derek Carr. Johnson, a fifth-round pick of Gruden’s ’08 Bucs, last attempted an NFL pass in 2011, though he did have a few kneel-downs for the Bengals in 2013. Did I mention Gruden stole his own son Deuce away from the Redskins (coached by Gruden’s younger brother, Jay) to be the Raiders’ new strength and conditioning coach? That must have been an awkward phone call. Sorry, bro. It’s just business.

So how did the Raiders, pray tell, afford such lavish expenditures? Easy—they unloaded a pair of All-Pros. It’s boilerplate stuff, really. What could go wrong trading return man Cordarrelle Patterson (second-highest kick return average in NFL history) to the Patriots? Or cutting punter Marquette King (third in net punt average last season). Who needs that guy, right? The Raiders also declined to re-sign Sebastian Janikowski, he of 414 career field goals including a 63-yarder, an NFL record at the time, in 2011.

Right about now you’re probably wondering what in God’s green earth this Gruden fella is up to and I don’t blame you. I’ve found myself pondering the same thing. It’s one of the five stages of Gruden Grief. While the inner workings of Gruden’s brain will always be a mystery to us (I’m imagining a 24-hour loop of Spider 2 Y Banana), reports from beat writers Bill Williamson of RaidersSnakePit.com and Vic Tafur of The Athletic give us a window into the coach’s thought process. According to Tafur, there were “whispers of King’s personality not clicking with Gruden’s” while Williamson agrees that Gruden wanted to send a “message” by showing King the door.

This is a side of Gruden we didn’t see on MNF. Gruden was overwhelmingly positive as a television analyst but now that the man has a football team to run, he’s not messing around. Part of the fun of football Twitter is overthinking things and the outcry over King’s release is a prime example of us doing just that. King is certainly an upper echelon punter and a boon to Oakland’s special teams unit, but at the end of the day, he’s just a punter. Life will go on.

The problem isn’t King—it’s Gruden’s outdated, ego-driven approach to team building. You can make the argument, as many Gruden supporters already have, that King’s release was a cap-saving move (it freed up $2.9 million). Those same sheep will argue that King’s four personal fouls over the last two seasons were a detriment to the team. But if Tafur and Williamson’s reporting is accurate, the real reason the Raiders cut King was because of his colorful personality and the threat it posed to Gruden’s hardnosed, no-nonsense style of coaching. King isn’t a disruptive player—he’s good at his job and likes to have some fun. But Gruden wouldn’t know the difference.

Gruden said at the NFL Combine that he wants to bring the Raiders back to 1998 by playing a throwback brand of football. That’s almost as cringe-worthy as Bill Polian saying Heisman Trophy winner Lamar Jackson should switch positions because he’s too small (6’3”/211) to play quarterback. Wake up, guys. This isn’t 1998. It’s 2018. Gruden can scoff at analytics all he wants but the reality is, forward-thinking teams like the Patriots and Eagles are the ones having success while members of the cocoon, as Evan Silva calls it, are being left behind.

Is it any wonder the Browns went 0-16 last year with defensive coordinator Gregg Williams trotting out the same ineffective defense week after week, regardless of opponent? The Patriots and Eagles were chameleons, routinely exposing their opponents’ weaknesses with exhaustive game-planning. We’re not even three months into the Gruden Era in Oakland—the second Gruden Era, I should say—and the man in charge has already admitted he’s not willing to play ball. Rather than adapt to an ever-changing analytics-driven landscape, Gruden is going to do things his way, which apparently means dumping a pair of All-Pro special teamers and a proven touchdown scorer in favor of a backup QB he coached 10 years ago, a running back who can’t play anymore and the worst tackle in football by a landslide, according to PFF.

There’s something to be said for unpopular personnel decisions. Bill Belichick makes them all the time. He traded Chandler Jones when it was time to pay him. He dealt Jimmy Garoppolo when it became clear that Jimmy G and Tom Brady could no longer coexist. He benched Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl and let him walk in free agency. LeGarrette Blount, Jamie Collins, Dion Lewis, Logan Ryan … the list goes on and on. Those are tough moves to make and not all of them have worked in New England’s favor. Belichick’s decision to exile Butler may have cost the Patriots a Super Bowl this past season. But when you’ve won over 200 games and seven Super Bowl rings, you tend to get the benefit of the doubt. If Gruden was expecting to get that kind of leeway after spending a decade up in the broadcast booth, he’d better think again. This is the NFL, the ultimate “what have you done for me lately” league. The answer: not much.

As badly as Gruden squandered free agency, the Raiders still have some intriguing pieces. Carr is being paid like a franchise quarterback, even if he didn’t play like one last year, while pass-rusher Khalil Mack continues to be an unstoppable supernova. And despite frequent lapses, Amari Cooper remains one of the most promising young receivers in football. There’s no telling what could happen in a wide-open AFC West. But if Gruden can’t get with the times, 2018 could pass the Raiders by.
Posts: 91,765
The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.The Franchise is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 02:55 PM   #91
RaidersOftheCellar RaidersOftheCellar is offline
MVP
 
RaidersOftheCellar's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Lawrence, KS
Casino cash: $3430400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reerun_KC View Post
How much more is that than super average Andy?
One of the winningest coaches in history, who immediately turned the worst team in the league into a consistent winner is super average. Brilliant take.
Posts: 14,593
RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.RaidersOftheCellar is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 03:05 PM   #92
RealSNR RealSNR is offline
Special Teams ACE!!!
 
RealSNR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Where the hell is SNR
Casino cash: $2670208
What was it? 10 years since the Callahan Super Bowl and no playoffs? Something like that?

Then they finally find a decent QB and some talent here and there... and POOF! It's all gone because they went all in on Gruden.

God, it might be another 10 years before they make the playoffs again.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
Posts: 90,133
RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.RealSNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 03:19 PM   #93
Pasta Little Brioni Pasta Little Brioni is offline
Consuming CP souls
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Casino cash: $4288880
Freighters desperately sold his trailer and big rig to gift Flowbee the cash to sign Mack
__________________
****Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner****
Posts: 68,019
Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Little Brioni is obviously part of the inner Circle.
Thumbs Up 1 Thumbs Down 0     Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 03:56 PM   #94
MarkDavis'Haircut MarkDavis'Haircut is offline
MVP
 
MarkDavis'Haircut's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2017
Casino cash: $5270400
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubya View Post
Live here locally so I get tons of raider news. Sounds like their camp is going great and LT Miller is further along than they could even hope. Penn is injured and being asked to restructure his contract. Not hearing any trade rumors regarding Mack but who knows? He still has a year left on his contract.
The only trade rumors about Mack are those started by bored sportswriters. He is still on his rookie deal and we can franchise tag his butt for two years.
Posts: 13,193
MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 04:00 PM   #95
MarkDavis'Haircut MarkDavis'Haircut is offline
MVP
 
MarkDavis'Haircut's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2017
Casino cash: $5270400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca View Post
The Raiders cut kicker Giorgio Telvecchio and the rumor is Gruden cut him because he's left footed and finding a holder for him is difficult when all the other kickers they have are right footed.

This sounds really ****ing dumb.
We cut the Italian Cannon because we signed the Florida duo as punter/kicker/holder. The previous holder was King who held for the lefty kickers Giorgio and Jano. That trio has departed so it makes no sense to keep the average Giorgio around. We have a righty holder and kicker now.
Posts: 13,193
MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.MarkDavis'Haircut is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 09:13 PM   #96
jdubya jdubya is offline
MVP
 
jdubya's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Casino cash: $5145025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKa9...layer_embedded
Posts: 5,153
jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.jdubya is too fat/Omaha.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 10:22 PM   #97
KS Smitty KS Smitty is offline
Cool as a Cucumber
 
KS Smitty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: on the edge
Casino cash: $3776717
I have nothing useful to add other than I "chuck"le everytime I read the thread title.
__________________
A D with Sneed is a D indeed.
Posts: 3,822
KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.KS Smitty has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 06:22 AM   #98
lawrenceRaider lawrenceRaider is offline
Here We Go Again
 
lawrenceRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Casino cash: $2523544
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Defensive players are just refusing to acknowledge the 'we are not going to pay you like a quarterback' thing.

If Donald or Mack would sign for a percentage kicker over what Von Miller signed for, I'm betting the deals get done. I just don't feel like they're willing to do that. They're hell-bent on re-setting the market for elite defensive players and getting them paid like they're a quarterback.

It's not gonna happen, lads. If they'd sign a deal with something like $75 million in guarantees and maybe $82 million over the first 4 years of the deal (who really gives a crap about the last year or two; fake money), I bet they'd get their contract done.

But when the Rams can tag Donald three times for a total of $55 million, just exactly how does he think he's gonna get them to pay him $25 million/season? Even Mack's 3 time franchise figure is 'only' $67 million. They're barking for money that no sane franchise would give them.

I'd be just as pleased to see the Raiders capitulate to Mack as I would see them trade him. Go ahead and extend a guy at $23 million/season through his age 31 season. See how that works out for you. Or hell, go ahead and trade him out of the division - I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him gone either. Personally, I think Mack's put them in a lose/lose situation here.

As for Donald - whatev; not my division, don't care. He can decide to retire if he wants but it's pretty silly to me that the Rams have him under team control for $55 million if they want over the three years after this one and he's effectively asking them to 'gift' him another $20 million. You don't like the rules - talk to your player rep. Maybe next time you guys won't get walloped in the CBA quite so badly.
I agree with all of this, and Mack will likely report at least in time for week 1. I don't think the Raiders will pay him more than $20-21 million a year, which is still a huge chunk of change, and they have him for the next three years minimum regardless of what he wants to do.
__________________
Posts: 14,388
lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 06:26 AM   #99
lawrenceRaider lawrenceRaider is offline
Here We Go Again
 
lawrenceRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Casino cash: $2523544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr4MVP View Post
We cut the Italian Cannon because we signed the Florida duo as punter/kicker/holder. The previous holder was King who held for the lefty kickers Giorgio and Jano. That trio has departed so it makes no sense to keep the average Giorgio around. We have a righty holder and kicker now.
We also signed another right footed veteran kicker who's been pretty decent in Mike Nugent.

I think the desperation of Chiefs fan for Gruden to fail is pretty damn funny. I guess some of you are old enough to remember the whippings the Raiders put on KC while he was coach?

To be fair, I'm not convinced Gruden II will work out, but he's ten times the coach Del Rio was/is.
__________________
Posts: 14,388
lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
Thumbs Up 1 Thumbs Down 0     Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 07:23 AM   #100
Hog's Gone Fishin Hog's Gone Fishin is offline
Fish are scared of me
 
Hog's Gone Fishin's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2001
Casino cash: $2010477
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
We also signed another right footed veteran kicker who's been pretty decent in Mike Nugent.

I think the desperation of Chiefs fan for Gruden to fail is pretty damn funny. I guess some of you are old enough to remember the whippings the Raiders put on KC while he was coach?

To be fair, I'm not convinced Gruden II will work out, but he's ten times the coach Del Rio was/is.

10 X 0 =0
Posts: 40,229
Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.Hog's Gone Fishin is obviously part of the inner Circle.
Thumbs Up 5 Thumbs Down 0     Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 07:44 AM   #101
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
Supporter
 
Buehler445's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Scott City KS
Casino cash: $2624734
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
We also signed another right footed veteran kicker who's been pretty decent in Mike Nugent.

I think the desperation of Chiefs fan for Gruden to fail is pretty damn funny. I guess some of you are old enough to remember the whippings the Raiders put on KC while he was coach?

To be fair, I'm not convinced Gruden II will work out, but he's ten times the coach Del Rio was/is.
Right. But Del Rio didn’t have personnel control
Posts: 56,528
Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.Buehler445 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 08:45 AM   #102
ChiefGator ChiefGator is offline
Can these boys not play?
 
ChiefGator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Northcentral Florida
Casino cash: $7932956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
Right. But Del Rio didn’t have personnel control
That is exactly the problem for the Raiders. McKenzie was doing a really good job of building that squad with very reasonable contracts. And with Gruden at least having his hands in the personnel decisions, that is likely to get screwed up.

This was a classic Al Davis bone-head play.
__________________
- Mark
Posts: 4,597
ChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliChiefGator 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 09:08 AM   #103
lawrenceRaider lawrenceRaider is offline
Here We Go Again
 
lawrenceRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Casino cash: $2523544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin View Post
10 X 0 =0
Well, you might have me there.
__________________
Posts: 14,388
lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
    Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 09:09 AM   #104
lawrenceRaider lawrenceRaider is offline
Here We Go Again
 
lawrenceRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Casino cash: $2523544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
Right. But Del Rio didn’t have personnel control
That is probably not entirely correct. Del Rio got the players he wanted.
__________________
Posts: 14,388
lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.lawrenceRaider has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
Thumbs Up 1 Thumbs Down 0     Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 10:38 AM   #105
Bowser Bowser is offline
mod-ish
 
Bowser's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: KC North
Casino cash: $3701616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin View Post
10 X 0 =0
Posts: 100,198
Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.Bowser is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:09 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
Fort Worth Texas Process Servers
Covering Arlington, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie and surrounding communities.
Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.