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Old 02-12-2018, 07:10 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Dopers will not like this opinion.

Last week marked the fifth anniversary of Colorado's decision to sanction the world's first anything-goes commercial pot trade.

Five years later, we remain an embarrassing cautionary tale.

Visitors to Colorado remark about a new agricultural smell, the wafting odor of pot as they drive near warehouse grow operations along Denver freeways. Residential neighborhoods throughout Colorado Springs reek of marijuana, as producers fill rental homes with plants.

Five years of retail pot coincide with five years of a homelessness growth rate that ranks among the highest rates in the country. Directors of homeless shelters, and people who live on the streets, tell us homeless substance abusers migrate here for easy access to pot.

Five years of Big Marijuana ushered in a doubling in the number of drivers involved in fatal crashes who tested positive for marijuana, based on research by the pro-legalization Denver Post.

Five years of commercial pot have been five years of more marijuana in schools than teachers and administrators ever feared.

"An investigation by Education News Colorado, Solutions and the I-News Network shows drug violations reported by Colorado's K-12 schools have increased 45 percent in the past four years, even as the combined number of all other violations has fallen," explains an expose on escalating pot use in schools by Rocky Mountain PBS in late 2016.

The investigation found an increase in high school drug violations of 71 percent since legalization. School suspensions for drugs increased 45 percent.

The National Survey on Drug Use and Health found Colorado ranks first in the country for marijuana use among teens, scoring well above the national average.

The only good news to celebrate on this anniversary is the dawn of another organization to push back against Big Marijuana's threat to kids, teens and young adults.

The Marijuana Accountability Coalition formed Nov. 6 in Denver and will establish satellites throughout the state. It resulted from discussions among recovery professionals, parents, physicians and others concerned with the long-term effects of a commercial industry profiteering off of substance abuse.

"It's one thing to decriminalize marijuana, it's an entirely different thing to legalize an industry that has commercialized a drug that is devastating our kids and devastating whole communities," said coalition founder Justin Luke Riley. "Coloradans need to know, other states need to know, that Colorado is suffering from massive normalization and commercialization of this drug which has resulted in Colorado being the number one state for youth drug use in the country. Kids are being expelled at higher rates, and more road deaths tied to pot have resulted since legalization."

Commercial pot's five-year anniversary is an odious occasion for those who want safer streets, healthier kids and less suffering associated with substance abuse. Experts say the worst effects of widespread pot use will culminate over decades. If so, we can only imagine the somber nature of Big Marijuana's 25th birthday.

— Colorado Springs Gazette
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:52 PM   #91
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It is almost impossible these days to know what the real story is without the agenda attached. Big pharma and the prison system make a bajillion dollars off of arresting people for pot. Maybe there's an uptick of pot related incidents. But neutral studies continously show that pain treatment with medical Marijuana is a highly successful deterrent to opiod abuse. And how much cost have we put into the system to throw pot smokers in jail and ruin their lives to where they become complete degenerates.

The whole narrative around this bs thank God is finally changing from all the propaganda. And no, I do not smoke weed.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:41 PM   #92
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They should probably have laws against contributing to the delinquency of minors, driving while intoxicated and public intoxication. Those things should be against the law. IMO.

Creating laws to criminalize what consenting adults do to their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes seems un-american. To me. (What if they are pursuing happiness? Surely they're not pursuing unhappiness....)

Wonder if the all those people would be hanging out in Colorado if their own states / federal government had the same pot laws.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:56 PM   #93
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BTW, not a doper. Just an American.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:05 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
That's the reason I originally supported legalization. You just can't jail everyone using it. The other products such as edibles and sprays are something I have no problems with keeping legal. The smoke getting out and affecting others I do. Driving shouldn't be allowed but I don't know what cut off period is suitable.
Do you know anything? Did you do a science experiment at home to show the effects smoke from cannabis has on others?
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:37 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I live in Washington State and virtually nothing here changed in day to day life after marijuana was legalized. Occassionally when we go to a public area, we smell pot smoke. Also sometimes we smell cigarette smoke. Sometimes, we smell car exhaust. My family somehow manages without too much drama.
Except they put limits on delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol found in the blood 2 hours after driving.


Washington state. Anyone whose blood contains more than 5µg/L (nanograms) of THC within two hours of driving is guilty of DUI, the law states.

EU: (cannabis) 2µg/L
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:41 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
Yes, and what about that says they were stoned at the time of the accident and hadn't instead gotten baked over the weekend then died in a wreck on Wednesday while sober?
Legally stoned is 5µg/L*, considered impossible to be present just hours of being high.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:54 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I wouldn't say that 7 out of 22 is a good statistic. Would you?

Anyway, they apparently can tell if one is actively high or not, so there goes the "it stays in your system for 30 days" argument, I guess.
it only shows to be in the system in urine testing for 30 days, hours in the blood at levers considered DUI in most US states. 5µg/L and above

So depending on when testing was done after smoking the number is probably low.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:56 AM   #98
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blood testing is for THC, urine testing is for compound emitted eliminating THC.

Apples and oranges.



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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Sounds like bullshit to me. Even if they can, you still have no statistic since the OP doesn't clarify that. And I'm sure that's not accidental. So no, the 30 day argument still stands.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:01 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Big Dope is gonna go all out to squelch any facts and figures from the grand experiment. But the real truth is its a bad move to loosen up on dope availability. Dopers gonna be dopers.
If you don't know the difference between apples and oranges how can you argue anything successfully?

I bet the writers don't know the difference in micrograms vs nanograms, no less explain it to the elements which fear taking a screen for a promotion at work.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:06 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Not really. When you establish that the article used "tested positive" to mean "tested at the legally accepted level of intoxication", then you can dismiss it.
CO law states that to be: The law states a jury can infer a motorist is impaired if the person had more than 5 nanograms of THC per milliliter in their blood.

That would be what is considered the legal threshold.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:09 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Supports the premise that your OP is incredibly misleading?

What we do have here is a stat proving these guys were driving drunk. What you DON'T have is a stat that proves they were high. Just that they were high at some point, not necessarily the day, or time they were driving.

So you can take 36% of your "had THC" stat, and throw that shit out the window. If they were driving drunk, you can't sit there and say, "see! It's because of weed!"
It means they had over 5 nanograms of THC per milliliter but were under .08 BAC when tested....

The OP was addressing THC levels not BAC. Appes and coconuts...
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:18 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
The problem is that someone can test positive for THC 21 days after they ingested it, so unless the person driving was actually using that day and is impaired when arrested, the rest becomes really blurry.
They are different tests. A blood test will not, cannot hit the markers to be considered impaired 21 days after.

I urine screen, which doesn't test THC at all will show compound the body forms to eliminate THC from the body.

Blood test= currently impaired

Piss test= has ingested within 30 days.

There is purpose in testing for THC in the blood just hours of ingesting as they will not be at high enough levels to be considered even mildly impaired.

Got it? Apples= is Oranges= was
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:26 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
That's the reason I originally supported legalization. You just can't jail everyone using it. The other products such as edibles and sprays are something I have no problems with keeping legal. The smoke getting out and affecting others I do. Driving shouldn't be allowed but I don't know what cut off period is suitable.
The great thing about pot is you can get blitzed at night and get up and go to work sober. THC is out of your blood but alcohol is still bathing your cells with plenty enough "ethenal or isopropyl " booze to make you test impaired even 12 hours later.

Much better to wait out the pot high than sleep off the drunk.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:37 AM   #104
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Yeah just because you have got your body used to functioning at >.08 BAC doesn't mean your not drunk.

We tested a guy who was cut on the hand on the job (for Work comp. requirements as per policy )and he was at .16 BAC and appeared more sober than me after having a beer at lunch.

Tolerance is probably not a defense against a DUI but the way the law reads, you must appear and test over the limit if that answers your question.

Quote:
— Here’s why California doesn’t
By Jenna LyonsDecember 31, 2017


Under California law, regardless of the legality or illegality of a substance, if a person is under the influence to the point where it becomes a traffic safety concern, it’s a crime.
IMAGE 1 OF 2 Under California law, regardless of the legality or illegality of a substance, if a person is under the influence to the point where it becomes a traffic safety concern, it’s a crime.
Melanie Brinegar smelled of marijuana, so a Colorado police officer asked her to get out of her vehicle. On the one-legged stand, a routine part of field sobriety tests, she lost her balance after 28 seconds, when she needed to go 30. A drug recognition evaluation that included looking at her vital signs went worse.

Then a blood analysis showed she had 19 nanograms per milliliter of THC in her system, several times the 5 nanogram threshold of the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana that a Colorado jury could use to infer she was impaired behind the wheel.

But she wasn’t, a jury found. Brinegar was acquitted of driving under the influence of marijuana after her 2014 arrest when her attorney, Colin McCallin, successfully argued she was not impaired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Over Yonder View Post
I didn't read the whole linked article. But does it get into tolerance levels? I promise you that you give me 1 beer(I don't think I could hold down a glass of wine, who drinks that crap ) vs. 1 joint, it's no comparison.

1 beer and nobody around would even know I had drank one. One joint and I couldn't stay awake long enough to shove 3 pizza's into my face. I haven't smoked in years but even back in the day I was a lightweight when it came to weed. I work with a guy that smokes and he has told me that if I couldn't hold my weed in the 80's and 90's, I better stay away from today's stuff. He said they have genetically enhanced the stuff these days.

But back to my point, tolerance plays into this stuff. I should of read the whole article but it's one of them things that's just too ridiculous of a concept to even bother putting too much time into.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:55 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by dlphg9 View Post
Do you know anything? Did you do a science experiment at home to show the effects smoke from cannabis has on others?
It does and far more hazardous depending on intensity and frequency but overall...2nd hand smoke effects “flow-mediated dilation” (FMD) of the cardiovascular ststem but also the effects of the THC if in enough quantity can effect children (and adults) and be considered by children's advocates as an issue.

Quote:
Dr. Springer UCSF notes, “I feel that public exposure to secondhand smoke should be avoided whether it is from tobacco or marijuana. Smoke-free policies that determine where smoking is prohibited should be written broadly enough to include marijuana. Educationally, people who live with other people, especially parents of young children, need to know that smoking marijuana around the kids may be just as bad for their cardiovascular health as smoking tobacco cigarettes. I think this is a no-brainer when it comes to recreational use.”
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