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Old 07-15-2017, 10:14 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Cuck Canadian PM Attempts Collusion with US Governors to Ditch "America First"

Look what we have here—a foreign govt medding in US policy by reaching out to our State Governors, by-passing the US Constitution which authorizes the Legislative branch (Federal Congress—ya' know The People's House) to regulate trade with foreign countries, between the states, and with Native American nations in Article I, S…ection 8, Clause 3.

I think globalism is ushering in some blurring of national borders and sovereignty but this is a first for a Canadian PM, a country that has been considered a friend.

What is he advocating? Trudeau is urging "thinner borders."

This was done in blatant opposition to the position Trump ran on. The more we integrate with trade agreements, climate accords and international in scope treaties, the more the America will disappear and become just another cog in a sweeping international bureaucracy run by technocrats who get to set themselves up as the kingmakers.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has told governors from across the US to ditch the "America First" motto.

In his speech, Mr Trudeau urged US governors to embrace their neighbour to the north and avoid protectionism.

It is all a part of his aggressive strategy to promote a "thinner border" ahead of vital trade talks with the US renegotiating the Nafta treaty.

"If anything, we would like a thinner border, not a thicker one."

Earlier in the day, Mr Trudeau had talks with governors from Wisconsin, Kentucky, Rhode Island and Iowa.

But over the past several months, Canada has sent everyone from cabinet ministers to provincial premiers to the mayor of Toronto to plead its case.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40612669
The simply erodes national sovereignty and NAFTA is actually loaded with protectionism and socialism. Just another wealth transfer program but between nations.

Trudeau needs to be ridden out on a rail with some tar and feathers on him. Or we should at least do it in effigy.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:12 PM   #46
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Chief Northman View Post
Now your semantics are clouding your argument.
Nope.

That would be you and your reading comprehension to a degree. Words have meanings. You haven't a clue what free-trade actually entails. You simply have bought into a false label that is more Newspeak from politicians.

Quote:
I've offered practical scenarios as to why a not-so- perfect trade agreement is arguably the best thing we can expect.
And I made arguments as to why it is beyond something that is merely "not-so-perfect." What we had before would fall under "not-so-perfect."

I also offered practical scenarios as to how to achieve true "free-trade" such as lowering or even abolishing tarriffs even if unilaterally; or simply having bi-lateral trade agreements. Things that actually deliver free-trade which requires true competition. Business don't always like true competition—especially the big players.

You simply ignored those solutions and toss out the word "semantics" when you're use the the word "free-trade" is the real semantics.
Its' nothing but a strawman for your argument.

Quote:
As Hamas cited, good governance comes along when constituents are heard, listened to, and worked for.
I agree but under our system of being a Republican form of government with a Constitution that took some powers from the states and placed it in the hands of the people's federal Congress—they are barred from acting in certain areas. It's only a few but they are there. Where there is no specific mention of something, then the rest goes to the states.

As much as I support power for the states, the Constitution does have specific language that took a few powers from the states. That is on trade because of the trade wars between the states under the articles of Confederation. It was to ensure that we have free trade IN the United States. Foreign trade was also a power granted to Federal Congress—not to the States.

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our blanket ideology of free trade combined with "America First" (cute), is nice and all but not at all practical.
In your opinion.
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Regardless of how you may feel your sovereignty/freedom is violated in a NAFTA agreement, people have to do what's best for them and work in the circumstances given to them.
It doesn't just come from my "feelings" Mr. Canada. It comes from supporting laws that govern our Republic.

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Your partisanship is making you black/white here and you have that right.
Sorry but the dissatisfaction with these faux "free-trade" agreements is bipartisan—not partisan. And they have been bi-partisan screw jobs from both sides of the aisle. So it is not black/white and your saying that shows how misinformed you are on their passage while you attempt to make it a black/white matter.


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I don't like Trudeau. Will never vote for him.
I don't care if you like Trudeau or not. I don't care what he does inside Canada. If you are someone who can vote for him, you don't sound like an American. Or you're a dual-citizen.

As an aside: I am opposed to dual citizens and we're getting more and more of them. I would like to see laws that reduce that ability to become one. I consider dual citizens not fully loyal to the US.

It's no wonder that you don't understand that our Constitution places trade in the hands of the national congress.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:14 PM   #47
Marcellus Marcellus is offline
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Foreign govt tells US governors to ignore their POTUS for foreign countries gain and its not attempted collusion or wrong in any way.

at Hamas yet again.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:17 PM   #48
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So you agree with flagrant trashing of the Constitution. I got it. You live in Canada. Are you even an American?

Actually, they are not working for their constituents —NOT when it's areas where the Constitution authorizes power to the Federal Congress and not to the States. They are engaging it what is being called by Democrat governors and other Democrats as "resistance." Looks like they're trashing the US Constitution as usual. Looks like sedition to me.

They're also doing it with the Paris Climate Change accord. I'll bet you don't think the same way about that.
That is an in-house issue for you.

NEWSFLASH: Governors and Premiers along with various Cabinet ministers have discussed trade agreements and pitched investments since time immemorial regardless of what political stripe is in power.

What you are dreaming up as collusion has been happening forever regardless of who has been in power. Trudeau may be pompous, favours socialist platforms, and might not fit your political ideology (nor mine) - but the man is not sinister.

Now if he does impose this federal carbon tax like he is promising, then yeah I might change my mind about the whole sinister thing...
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:17 PM   #49
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Chief Northman View Post
I'm Canadian you idiot. It took you this long to figure this out?
Actually no. It made me wonder if you were an American living and working in Canada since you've so involved commenting on our internal politics. It explains everything, including you're being in here meddling in our politics. Here you are the one accusing me of being black/white on a topic, you moron.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:20 PM   #50
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Actually no. It made me wonder if you were an American living and working in Canada since you've so involved commenting on our internal politics. It explains everything, including you're being in here meddling in our politics. Here you are the one accusing me of being black/white on a topic, you moron.
Funny an American should accuse ANYONE of meddling in others politics.

BOOM.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:24 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Chief Northman View Post
That is an in-house issue for you.

NEWSFLASH: Governors and Premiers along with various Cabinet ministers have discussed trade agreements and pitched investments since time immemorial regardless of what political stripe is in power.
In the US?

Since when do we have premiers here?

I'm not talking about Canada but the US.

Quote:
What you are dreaming up as collusion has been happening forever regardless of who has been in power.
Yet, you provide no specifics.

Regulation foreign trade is the authority of our federal congress—not governors. I notice you deliberately ignore our Constitution for your claims. You should, at least, know what you're talking about. Because we often have politicians that usurp it, and them people think it's allowed. This is how it's been eroded over time.

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Trudeau may be pompous, favours socialist platforms, and might not fit your political ideology (nor mine) - but the man is not sinister.
I consider him meddling in our federal republic and blatantly advocating policy to undermine our president who was elected for his positions on things like these trade agreements.

Quote:
Now if he does impose this federal carbon tax like he is promising, then yeah I might change my mind about the whole sinister thing...
He shouldn't be meddling in this manner period. As an American I have a right to say so more than you. He needs to address it with our national govt. Since Trump is in power, he is intentionally trying to undermine our national govt, by passing it and going to governors.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:24 PM   #52
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Actually no. It made me wonder if you were an American living and working in Canada since you've so involved commenting on our internal politics. It explains everything, including you're being in here meddling in our politics. Here you are the one accusing me of being black/white on a topic, you moron.
You should worry more about the Russians. I hear they are fond of the POTUS?
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:31 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Chief Northman View Post
You should worry more about the Russians. I hear they are fond of the POTUS?
Well that's certainly a very leftist and Establishment take on events.

I'm not worried about the Russians at all. I am worried about the constant belligerence and provoking of the Russians by certain people in our govt. We have certainly been the aggressor nation since 9/11 violating the Nuremberg standard we created after WWII—not the Russians. Russia should be our ally in the war on terror. I fear my own govt more these days.

I am worried more about more greater control by globalists over my nation.

But you don't have any moral right to tell me what I should be concerned about regarding my own country, especially while you're benefiting from a lopsided trade agreement. You don't understand our form of govt—that's for sure.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:35 PM   #54
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
In the US?

Since when do we have premiers here?

I'm not talking about Canada but the US.


Yet, you provide no specifics.

Regulation foreign trade is the authority of our federal congress—not governors. I notice you deliberately ignore our Constitution for your claims. You should, at least, know what you're talking about. Because we often have politicians that usurp it, and them people think it's allowed. This is how it's been eroded over time.



I consider him meddling in our federal republic and blatantly advocating policy to undermine our president who was elected for his positions on things like these trade agreements.



He shouldn't be meddling in this manner period. As an American I have a right to say so more than you. He needs to address it with our national govt. Since Trump is in power, he is intentionally trying to undermine our national govt, by passing it and going to governors.
JFC.

CANADIAN PROVINCIAL PREMIERS GO TO THE UNITED STATES AND HAVE MEETINGS WITH GOVERNORS, INVESTORS, ETC. TO DICUSS POTENTIAL TRADE AND INVESTMENT AS PART OF EXISTING AND POTENTIALLY RATIFIED TRADE AGREEMENTS SUCH AS OUTLINED IN NAFTA.

Why is this so hard to comprehend? Do you even have a clue as to how much cross-border business occurs daily? Our two countries are very much in lock-step economically whether we like it or not. What Trudeau is attempting is a testing of the waters to see where/what is supported currently in NAFTA from the American side so he can negotiate from an educated perspective. Trump was at first ready to pull out of NAFTA. He has since softened his stance to "re-negotiation".
Like every single issue in politics, some will favour status quo while some will seek alternatives. That is all this is.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:37 PM   #55
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well that's certainly a very leftist and Establishment take on events.

I'm not worried about the Russians at all. I am worried about the constant belligerence and provoking of the Russians by certain people in our govt. We have certainly been the aggressor nation since 9/11 violating the Nuremberg standard we created after WWII—not the Russians. Russia should be our ally in the war on terror. I fear my own govt more these days.

I am worried more about more greater control by globalists over my nation.

But you don't have any moral right to tell me what I should be concerned about regarding my own country, especially while you're benefiting from a lopsided trade agreement. You don't understand our form of govt—that's for sure.
You obviously did not detect my sarcasm.

The Russia thing is all butthurt and bullshit from the Libs/Dems.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:43 PM   #56
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Strawman arguments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Northman View Post
JFC.

CANADIAN PROVINCIAL PREMIERS GO TO THE UNITED STATES AND HAVE MEETINGS WITH GOVERNORS, INVESTORS, ETC. TO DICUSS POTENTIAL TRADE AND INVESTMENT AS PART OF EXISTING AND POTENTIALLY RATIFIED TRADE AGREEMENTS SUCH AS OUTLINED IN NAFTA.
JFC

I was talking about my country, it's Constitutional system—not your ****ing big govt premiers.

You're making strawmen.

Quote:
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
I should be asking you.

Quote:
Do you even have a clue as to how much cross-border business occurs daily?
You still don't get it. Another strawman.

Quote:
Our two countries are very much in lock-step economically whether we like it or not.
You still don't get it. Another strawman.
Quote:
What Trudeau is attempting is a testing of the waters to see where/what is supported currently in NAFTA from the American side so he can negotiate from an educated perspective.
You still don't get it. Another strawman.

Not once have you grasped, let alone addressed what powers were left to our States.

BTW they sell Hooked-On-Phonics here and it may even be tariff free.

Quote:
Trump was at first ready to pull out of NAFTA. He has since softened his stance to "re-negotiation".
Actually, no, he said on the campaign he would renegotiate Nafta and if it couldn't be then he'd pull out.

He said he would prevent us being in the TPP.


Quote:
Like every single issue in politics, some will favour status quo while some will seek alternatives.
That's irrelevant to my argument. I am not a child that needs to be lectured to on that point either.

Quote:
That is all this is.
Nope.

Just in your opinion.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:44 PM   #57
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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BTW Conservatives in Canada, I see as more like European conservatives. They're not the same thing as American Conservatives. Our notions of liberty are more expansive than such governments. Canada remained with Britain. They're Tories.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:48 PM   #58
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Actually, in America they'd be called "cucks" for holding such opinions.

We have our very own Cuck Canadian our DC forum.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:50 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Foreign govt tells US governors to ignore their POTUS for foreign countries gain and its not attempted collusion or wrong in any way.

at Hamas yet again.
Yeah, when you cut it down to that, it is some pretty bad shit.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:52 PM   #60
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
JFC

I was talking about my country, it's Constitutional system—not your ****ing big govt premiers.

You're making strawmen.



I should be asking you.



You still don't get it. Another strawman.



You still don't get it. Another strawman.


You still don't get it. Another strawman.

Not once have you grasped, let alone addressed what powers were left to our States.

BTW they sell Hooked-On-Phonics here and it may even be tariff free.



Actually, no, he said on the campaign he would renegotiate Nafta and if it couldn't be then he'd pull out.

He said he would prevent us being in the TPP.



That's irrelevant to my argument. I am not a child that needs to be lectured to on that point either.



Nope.

Just in your opinion.
If your argument/gripe is with your application of the Constitution, then ****ing fix that at your end. Governors undermining the feds? Your problem, not ours. Trudeau appears to be the least of the problem here from the sounds of it. Dem governors going rogue? Your issue - get it straightened out. As far as your strawman references go, it is obvious you don't want context to any contrarian views, so continue to miss the point if you please and be self-absorbed with this purported gross abuse of the Constitution....
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Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
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