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Old 07-15-2017, 10:14 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Cuck Canadian PM Attempts Collusion with US Governors to Ditch "America First"

Look what we have here—a foreign govt medding in US policy by reaching out to our State Governors, by-passing the US Constitution which authorizes the Legislative branch (Federal Congress—ya' know The People's House) to regulate trade with foreign countries, between the states, and with Native American nations in Article I, S…ection 8, Clause 3.

I think globalism is ushering in some blurring of national borders and sovereignty but this is a first for a Canadian PM, a country that has been considered a friend.

What is he advocating? Trudeau is urging "thinner borders."

This was done in blatant opposition to the position Trump ran on. The more we integrate with trade agreements, climate accords and international in scope treaties, the more the America will disappear and become just another cog in a sweeping international bureaucracy run by technocrats who get to set themselves up as the kingmakers.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has told governors from across the US to ditch the "America First" motto.

In his speech, Mr Trudeau urged US governors to embrace their neighbour to the north and avoid protectionism.

It is all a part of his aggressive strategy to promote a "thinner border" ahead of vital trade talks with the US renegotiating the Nafta treaty.

"If anything, we would like a thinner border, not a thicker one."

Earlier in the day, Mr Trudeau had talks with governors from Wisconsin, Kentucky, Rhode Island and Iowa.

But over the past several months, Canada has sent everyone from cabinet ministers to provincial premiers to the mayor of Toronto to plead its case.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40612669
The simply erodes national sovereignty and NAFTA is actually loaded with protectionism and socialism. Just another wealth transfer program but between nations.

Trudeau needs to be ridden out on a rail with some tar and feathers on him. Or we should at least do it in effigy.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:16 PM   #31
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:19 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You'll have to answer those who supported it. I answered that in earlier posts anyways— because it was misrepresented as free-trade and not read by most.




No it doesn't. Nothing "has to happen." What I think needs to happen is to repeal it. Then lower tariffs.



I didn't say I was against free trade either. My argument is that it is not free-trade.




It's not a whine. That's your opinion and a mischaracterization. It's exposing it for what it is and make it more known. It's transparency. I'll continue to advocate against it. Including doubling-down if I have to.


It's not their decision under our Constitution.




If rules are rules, then the rules in our Constitution over rule it. It was called an "AGREEMENT" for one reason, it could not make it through the treaty process. It's another end-run around our Constitution. Republicans who support it are just as guilty as Obama when they violate it.




Ahhh, I see now. You're a vested interest in the deal getting market share via govt intervention in markets. I always said the deal favors certain interests. That makes sense. Just admit you don't favor free-trade but govt managed trade that benefits certain industries and corporations.

Though, it's not like you couldn't benefit from true free-trade that lowers tariffs or is negotiated bi-laterally and we get to maintain sovereignty to boot.

Your vested interest, is not what many Americans support or care about though. America First! All of it—not just certain industries or interest groups.
That's your viewpoint and you don't speak for all Americans.
Nor do I speak for all Canadians.
Don't give me this government managed trade bullshit. If it is negotiated in a trade agreement it is just that. The US and Europe grossly exceed Canada with regards to agricultural subsidies for producers, so that is where your "economic socialism" exceeds ours. When it comes to everday social programming, there is no doubt Canada is left of center with policy under a Liberal government. Your political and sovereign focus on the weaknesses of the deal are distracting you from some of the shared economic benefits all countries can garner in participating in "free trade". The free trade you envision and idealize could never be sustained. America's been there before as has Canada. Limited shelf life, and the globe is not what it was 30-40 years ago. The world is catching up to North America....
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:22 PM   #33
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Once again since it needs repeating

The authority of Congress to regulate international trade is set out in Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 1 of the United States Constitution:

The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and to promote the general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:30 PM   #34
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Why does it need repeating?
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:32 PM   #35
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
In order for his point to have made any sense, you'd have previously argued the opposite. Since you didn't, I have no idea what his point was
I'm trying to think of someone who has pounded the "State's Rights" drum harder than BEP, and aside from TJ, I'm coming up empty (he doesn't really believe in it either, though).

The point is two-fold

1) The attempt to insert collusion into this are the ravings of a butthurt lunatic.

2) The governors are considering acting in a manner that is in the best interests of their constituents--both economically and what said constituents would support politically.

Trudeau is meeting with these governors to have them advocate for the benefits of NAFTA by pointing out what the benefits are for the workers and individuals within. He's also doing that out in the open. His point is that the idealistic slogan of America First is actually self-defeating--it's cutting off your nose to spite your face by turning back on deals in the name of a vapid ideology wrapped around a slogan constructed in first grade vernacular.

But what her post really exposes is her core hypocrisy--she wants the states to decide on policy when she likes it, and she doesn't want them when they decide on policy she doesn't like. It also highlights the fundamental bullshit of her beliefs--that they aren't really rooted in any core values other than who she cheerleads, regardless of logic. Her inability to articulate an argument without resorting to buzzword crutches like "cuck" and an ironic invocation of collusion is further evidence of that.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:37 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Chief Northman View Post
That's your viewpoint and you don't speak for all Americans.
I don't claim to speak for all Americans, especially with you disagreeing with me. But it's not just my viewpoint. I cited certain facts, one being the words of the US Constitution.

Trump ran against these agreements. This is also a fact. When you combine those who were lured to him, plus those who were lured by Sanders saying the same things about nafta etc—it certainly appears that more Americans are unhappy with these agreements and sought change.



Quote:
Nor do I speak for all Canadians.
Who said you were?

Quote:
Don't give me this government managed trade bullshit.
This is a fact. You even revealed it yourself in your own words.

Quote:
If it is negotiated in a trade agreement it is just that.
No kidding. Did I say it wasn't? You're making a strawman argument here.

It is a negotiated trade by governments, so by it's very nature a is not free-trade just with saying that. Add in the managed trade aspects, with protectionism, socialism for losses and capitalism for profits. I will look for my post with some specific parts from nafta.

Quote:
The US and Europe grossly exceed Canada with regards to agricultural subsidies for producers, so that is where your "economic socialism" exceeds ours. When it comes to everday social programming, there is no doubt Canada is left of center with policy under a Liberal government.
So

Quote:
Your political and sovereign focus on the weaknesses of the deal are distracting you from some of the shared economic benefits all countries can garner in participating in "free trade".
Those shared economic benefits brought to you by big government that benefits certain players who made themselves the kingmakers instead of true free-trade competition.

Quote:
The free trade you envision and idealize could never be sustained.
Well, thank you for finally agreeing that you don't support free-trade.

However, it's speculative if it cannot be sustained. The world has never really had it except in certain times and places. It would only be because politically connected corporatists would rage against it demanding special treatment or complaining about something. So they run to the govt to favor themselves.

Hamilton was a protectionist, as were many of our Founding Fathers.

Quote:
America's been there before as has Canada.
So what.

Quote:
Limited shelf life, and the globe is not what it was 30-40 years ago. The world is catching up to North America....
So what if the world is different than it was 30 or 40 years ago, that is irrelevant to the point that it is still NOT free-trade. It's Newspeak to say that.

That is usually the argument the left gives for why we need their socialism—because things have changed. No, certain things are universal.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:37 PM   #37
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I'm trying to think of someone who has pounded the "State's Rights" drum harder than BEP, and aside from TJ, I'm coming up empty (he doesn't really believe in it either, though).

The point is two-fold

1) The attempt to insert collusion into this are the ravings of a butthurt lunatic.

2) The governors are considering acting in a manner that is in the best interests of their constituents--both economically and what said constituents would support politically.

Trudeau is meeting with these governors to have them advocate for the benefits of NAFTA by pointing out what the benefits are for the workers and individuals within. He's also doing that out in the open. His point is that the idealistic slogan of America First is actually self-defeating--it's cutting off your nose to spite your face by turning back on deals in the name of a vapid ideology wrapped around a slogan constructed in first grade vernacular.

But what her post really exposes is her core hypocrisy--she wants the states to decide on policy when she likes it, and she doesn't want them when they decide on policy she doesn't like. It also highlights the fundamental bullshit of her beliefs--that they aren't really rooted in any core values other than who she cheerleads, regardless of logic. Her inability to articulate an argument without resorting to buzzword crutches like "cuck" and an ironic invocation of collusion is further evidence of that.
I will abstain from the name-calling but you articulate point #2 and the subsequent paragraph very well.

Agreed.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:38 PM   #38
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Thanks for engaging with me, but I'm really just posting to highlight your logic-free idealism.

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Old 07-15-2017, 01:40 PM   #39
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Dems colluding to subvert the Constitution and our recent election

Chiefnorthman applauds it.


Foreign Officials Want to Use Dem Governors to Undermine US


Now that we're speaking of treason, here's the ongoing treason problem caused by the Dem refusal to respect the results of a legal election. And their willingness to collaborate with other countries against the United States. We've seen examples of this with unilateral declarations by states for the Paris Agreement. And now the foxes are headed to the henhouse.


The annual summer meeting of the National Governors Association (NGA) is often a low-key and sometimes sleepy event...but what also has heightened focus on the meeting is the appearance of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, along with other officials from Canada, Mexico, India, China and Japan.

The sudden interest in the work of the governors from abroad reflects fears by leaders of some foreign governments about the direction of U.S. trade policy under a president who has sharply criticized free-trade agreements negotiated by past administrations. Those concerns were on display at last week’s Group of 20 meeting in Hamburg and have quickly become a prime topic of interest ahead of the NGA. One NGA official described the interest from other countries as “amazing.”
Amazing is certainly one word. It's a somewhat insufficient word. What we're talking about is foreign countries trying to undermine our national policy by exploiting the subversiveness of the "Resistance" politics of the Dems.


The governors welcome the attention. “Our point is: With the disarray going on in Washington, D.C., today, you should be dealing directly with governors,” said Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D-Va.), the NGA chairman, who will end his tenure this weekend.



http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/26...iel-greenfield
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:41 PM   #40
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I like when people laugh at patteeu's OPINION of what is logic, when he is being illogical. Afterall, he relied on an ad hom, a logical fallacy, as are you. You both got nuthin." That means I won.


I give you both 5 nothingburgers out of 5.


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Old 07-15-2017, 01:46 PM   #41
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I'll bet patteeu and ChiefNorthman love the idea that these foreign leaders are working with the governors on the Paris Climate Accord too.

Where's your outrage there?

You can't have it both ways. That looks like it violates the Logan Act. Even Jerry Brown is negotiating his own FP with China now too.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:49 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Chief Northman View Post
I will abstain from the name-calling but you articulate point #2 and the subsequent paragraph very well.

Agreed.
So you agree with flagrant trashing of the Constitution. I got it. You live in Canada. Are you even an American?

Actually, they are not working for their constituents —NOT when it's areas where the Constitution authorizes power to the Federal Congress and not to the States. They are engaging it what is being called by Democrat governors and other Democrats as "resistance." Looks like they're trashing the US Constitution as usual. Looks like sedition to me.

They're also doing it with the Paris Climate Change accord. I'll bet you don't think the same way about that.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:51 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't claim to speak for all Americans, especially with you disagreeing with me. But it's not just my viewpoint. I cited certain facts, one being the words of the US Constitution.

Trump ran against these agreements. This is also a fact. When you combine those who were lured to him, plus those who were lured by Sanders saying the same things about nafta etc—it certainly appears that more Americans are unhappy with these agreements and sought change.





Who said you were?



This is a fact. You even revealed it yourself in your own words.



No kidding. Did I say it wasn't? You're making a strawman argument here.

It is a negotiated trade by governments, so by it's very nature a is not free-trade just with saying that. Add in the managed trade aspects, with protectionism, socialism for losses and capitalism for profits. I will look for my post with some specific parts from nafta.



So



Those shared economic benefits brought to you by big government that benefits certain players who made themselves the kingmakers instead of true free-trade competition.



Well, thank you for finally agreeing that you don't support free-trade.

However, it's speculative if it cannot be sustained. The world has never really had it except in certain times and places. It would only be because politically connected corporatists would rage against it demanding special treatment or complaining about something. So they run to the govt to favor themselves.

Hamilton was a protectionist, as were many of our Founding Fathers.



So what.



So what if the world is different than it was 30 or 40 years ago, that is irrelevant to the point that it is still NOT free-trade. It's Newspeak to say that.

That is usually the argument the left gives for why we need their socialism—because things have changed. No, certain things are universal.
Now your semantics are clouding your argument. I've offered practical scenarios as to why a not-so- perfect trade agreement is arguably the best thing we can expect. As Hamas cited, good governance comes along when constituents are heard, listened to, and worked for. Your blanket ideology of free trade combined with "America First" (cute), is nice and all but not at all practical. Regardless of how you may feel your sovereignty/freedom is violated in a NAFTA agreement, people have to do what's best for them and work in the circumstances given to them. Your partisanship is making you black/white here and you have that right.
I don't like Trudeau. Will never vote for him. But I understand and respect why he's doing what he is doing with regards to having discourse on NAFTA with the vested interests on all sides.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:53 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I'll bet patteeu and ChiefNorthman love the idea that these foreign leaders are working with the governors on the Paris Climate Accord too.

Where's your outrage there?

You can't have it both ways. That looks like it violates the Logan Act. Even Jerry Brown is negotiating his own FP with China now too.
I'll reserve my judgment until I see what they're actually doing. You should try it sometime.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:04 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So you agree with flagrant trashing of the Constitution. I got it. You live in Canada. Are you even an American?

Actually, they are not working for their constituents —NOT when it's areas where the Constitution authorizes power to the Federal Congress and not to the States. They are engaging it what is being called by Democrat governors and other Democrats as "resistance." Looks like they're trashing the US Constitution as usual. Looks like sedition to me.

They're also doing it with the Paris Climate Change accord. I'll bet you don't think the same way about that.
I'm Canadian you idiot. It took you this long to figure this out?
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Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Chief Northman Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
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