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Old 07-14-2017, 02:29 PM  
Donger Donger is offline
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Bungled collusion is still collusion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.4cd5051349c0

The Russia scandal has entered a new phase, and there’s no going back.

For six months, the White House claimed that this scandal was nothing more than innuendo about Trump campaign collusion with Russia in meddling in the 2016 election. Innuendo for which no concrete evidence had been produced.

Yes, there were several meetings with Russian officials, some only belatedly disclosed. But that is circumstantial evidence at best. Meetings tell you nothing unless you know what happened in them. We didn’t. Some of these were casual encounters in large groups, like the famous July 2016 Kislyak-Sessions exchange of pleasantries at the Republican National Convention. Big deal.

I was puzzled. Lots of coverup, but where was the crime? Not even a third-rate burglary. For six months, smoke without fire. Yes, President Trump himself was acting very defensively, as if he were hiding something. But no one ever produced the something.

My view was: Collusion? I just don’t see it. But I’m open to empirical evidence. Show me.

The evidence is now shown. This is not hearsay, not fake news, not unsourced leaks. This is an email chain released by Donald Trump Jr. himself. A British go-between writes that there’s a Russian government effort to help Trump Sr. win the election, and as part of that effort he proposes a meeting with a “Russian government attorney” possessing damaging information on Hillary Clinton. Moreover, the Kremlin is willing to share troves of incriminating documents from the Crown Prosecutor. (Error: Britain has a Crown Prosecutor. Russia has a Prosecutor General.)

Donald Jr. emails back. “I love it.” Fatal words.

Once you’ve said “I’m in,” it makes no difference that the meeting was a bust, that the intermediary brought no such goods. What matters is what Donald Jr. thought going into the meeting, as well as Jared Kushner and then-campaign manager Paul Manafort, who were forwarded the correspondence, invited to the meeting, and attended.

“It was literally just a wasted 20 minutes, which was a shame,” Donald Jr. told Sean Hannity. A shame? On the contrary, a stroke of luck. Had the lawyer real stuff to deliver, Donald Jr. and the others would be in far deeper legal trouble. It turned out to be incompetent collusion, amateur collusion, comically failed collusion. That does not erase the fact that three top Trump campaign officials were ready to play.

It may turn out that they did later collaborate more fruitfully. We don’t know. But even if nothing else is found, the evidence is damning.

It’s rather pathetic to hear Trump apologists protesting that it’s no big deal because we Americans are always intervening in other people’s elections, and they in ours. You don’t have to go back to the ’40s and ’50s when the CIA intervened in France and Italy to keep the communists from coming to power. What about the Obama administration’s blatant interference to try to defeat Benjamin Netanyahu in the latest Israeli election? One might even add the work of groups supported by the U.S. during Russian parliamentary elections — the very origin of Vladimir Putin’s deep animus toward Clinton, then secretary of state, whom he accuses of having orchestrated the opposition.

This defense is pathetic for two reasons. First, have the Trumpites not been telling us for six months that no collusion ever happened? And now they say: Sure it happened. So what? Everyone does it.

What’s left of your credibility when you make such a casual about-face?

Second, no, not everyone does it. It’s one thing to be open to opposition research dug up in Indiana. But not dirt from Russia, a hostile foreign power that has repeatedly invaded its neighbors (Georgia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine), that buzzes our planes and ships in international waters, that opposes our every move and objective around the globe. Just last week the Kremlin killed additional U.N. sanctions we were looking to impose on North Korea for its ICBM test.

There is no statute against helping a foreign hostile power meddle in an American election. What Donald Jr. — and Kushner and Manafort — did may not be criminal. But it is not merely stupid. It is also deeply wrong, a fundamental violation of any code of civic honor.

I leave it to the lawyers to adjudicate the legalities of unconsummated collusion. But you don’t need a lawyer to see that the Trump defense — collusion as a desperate Democratic fiction designed to explain away a lost election — is now officially dead.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:02 PM   #46
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FBI has a long history of dishonesty and corruption.
Also would inform Obama.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:06 PM   #47
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Mark Levin, who I would argue ius a true conservative, just ripped the **** out of Krauthamher and his bullshit take

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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:42 PM   #48
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Meeting to get information from a foreign source about your political opponent is not collusion anyway. Those who claim that are trying to frame a routine action into some kind of malfeasance. If Don Jr didn't follow up on the lead he'd be guilty of malpractice.

If Donger, Dave Lane and others think their side doesn't do —they turning a blind eye.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:46 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Since we're making presumptions, here's mine: I'm presuming that this whole thing was a political sting operation with the intent to get Don Jr. to pay for information, and it failed, but they're doing everything they can to huff this up because they're running out of cards to play.
They know that many people are ignorant too and hope the claims will stick. Repeat it enough, a lot of people out their will fall for it like WMD in Iraq. This is why these folks are actually dangerous. It's really an attempt at a bloodless coup. We're now a banana republic and folks like Donger lead the way.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:47 PM   #50
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It's better that you're bitter than me being bitter.


Makes me laugh
Donger isn't a conservative in the American sense. No true American conservative refers to America as a democracy. He's a Tory transplant. European conservatives are a completely different animal than their American counterparts. This is Donger. He's no revolutionary.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:50 PM   #51
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Once again for our propagandists:

Collusion

An agreement between two or more people to defraud a person of his or her rights or to obtain something that is prohibited by law.

A secret arrangement wherein two or more people whose legal interests seemingly conflict conspire to commit Fraud upon another person; a pact between two people to deceive a court with the purpose of obtaining something that they would not be able to get through legitimate judicial channels.

collusion


n. where two persons (or business entities through their officers or other employees) enter into a deceitful agreement, usually secret, to defraud and/or gain an unfair advantage over a third party, competitors, consumers or those with whom they are negotiating. Collusion can include secret price or wage fixing, secret rebates, or pretending to be independent of each other when actually conspiring together for their joint ends. It can range from small-town shopkeepers or heirs to a grandma's estate, to gigantic electronics companies or big league baseball team owners.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/collusion (

How about HilLiaRy's collusion to cheat Sanders, to cheat in the debates by getting questions in advance? Such things aren't necessarily, illegal, but it fits the real definition more than getting some opposition research.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:06 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Collusion bungled or not—is not a crime. Our govt engages in various kinds of collusion ALL the time.

You may not like it, but it's a political complaint.
BINGO !!



The Majority Marxist Media and the Marxist Dems pursue with the same intensity for potential Trump crimes like Bush looking for WMDs in order to save political face of which will not happen. Gotta be something here !!
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:08 PM   #53
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I agree with Krauthammer. It's sad that Donald Junior was ready to jump at the chance to engage in something that is wrong, and corrupt, if not illegal, even though we all know the Clintons engage in the same and worse, and would have done the same thing.

His saying "I'm in" burns him, even though they were suckered into a meeting about something else and nothing seems to have come of it. It only increases the ignominy that they screwed it up.

Were this a Clinton scandal they'd quarantine this person as an "overzealous supporter" and she's say that she had no knowledge of it and the media would cheerfully move on to puff pieces. But you can't really do that when the idiot is your son. They need to put him out of the camp and move on.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:32 PM   #54
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I agree with Krauthammer. It's sad that Donald Junior was ready to jump at the chance to engage in something that is wrong, and corrupt, if not illegal, even though we all know the Clintons engage in the same and worse, and would have done the same thing.

His saying "I'm in" burns him, even though they were suckered into a meeting about something else and nothing seems to have come of it. It only increases the ignominy that they screwed it up.

Were this a Clinton scandal they'd quarantine this person as an "overzealous supporter" and she's say that she had no knowledge of it and the media would cheerfully move on to puff pieces. But you can't really do that when the idiot is your son. They need to put him out of the camp and move on.
He is out of the camp...never been in the camp
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:33 PM   #55
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He's a conservative who doesn't trust Trump. It's hard to blame him for his reluctance on that count.
He's a never-Trump boob. And I for one love having him here. He's a true court jester.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:36 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I agree with Krauthammer.
Some conservatives are taking Krauthammer down for what he said.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:38 PM   #57
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Some conservatives are taking Krauthammer down for what he said.
He lost a big chunk of the base after 2012 when he told the GOP to pass amnesty. I used to sorta like him myself. After that point I refused to even look at his ugly face.



Admittedly, the clips of him laughing off Don's chances before and even during Election Night gave me great shadenfreud
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:39 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Some conservatives are taking Krauthammer down for what he said.
Krauthammer is a never-Trumper that sucks the establishment ball sack. He masturbates to the likes of McCain. He's a ****ing idiot. I'm not a huge Levin fan but when he is taking down Krauthammer over this that says something.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:40 PM   #59
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I agree with Krauthammer. It's sad that Donald Junior was ready to jump at the chance to engage in something that is wrong, and corrupt, if not illegal, even though we all know the Clintons engage in the same and worse, and would have done the same thing.
That is this is wrong or corrupt is your subjective opinion. It was not illegal. Even liberal Dershowitz said it's not illegal. It's political.

I would have gone to hear what the person had to say. It's worth checking out and other political operatives, if they're being honest, would do the same. NOT to do so, would be malpractice for a campaign. You get all you can on your opponent—legally. It's legal. The Democrats did it. but not always legally. How'd they those pages of Trump's tax return? You can bet someone inside the Obama administration violated his privacy and the law by leaking them.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:42 PM   #60
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Krauthammer is a never-Trumper that sucks the establishment ball sack. I masturbates to the likes of McCain. He's a ****ing idiot. I'm not a huge Levin fan but when he is taking down Krauthammer over this that says something.
Yeah, I am not a huge Levin fan but I agree here. Even Beck, who I loathe, thinks this is hysteria they way it's being framed.
Like on CNN in the morning, he said O'Reilly said to Beck, CNN breathlessly announced they had a video of Trump with the Russians. It turned out to be a beauty pageant video where Russians were in it. 'Cuz one of those Russians guys were there at that pageant.

They've gone full-bore Alinsky—even Donger and Cochise. Some see through and some are calling in angry as hell to these shows about it. Hope it backfires big time.
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