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Old 08-04-2015, 06:10 PM  
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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Seattle's $15 minimum wage redux

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Seattle became the first city in the nation to implement the $15 per hour minimum wage this past spring. Fox News reports that one unintended effect is that workers who are earning the higher wage are asking for fewer hours, so they can remain eligible for low income government benefits like childcare and tax credits.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

Local radio talk show host Jason Rantz on KIRO-FM noted the irony: “If [employees] cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people.”

“Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376,” according to Fox News.

...

“Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut,” Fox News reported.

...

Earlier this year, as the implementation of the minimum wage law loomed, Seattle Magazine noted that something appeared to be afoot affecting the restaurant industry in the city, asking: “Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately? “Seattle foodies [are] downcast,” the magazine reported

...

The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of the Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to, say 42 percent, something has to give.

Shah Burnham is just one Seattle restaurant owner who believes that keeping her doors open is no longer worth it. She owns a popular Z Pizza restaurant location and says that even though her one store only has 12 employees, she’s considered part of the Z Pizza franchise — a large business. So she has to give raises within the next two years. “Small businesses in the city have up to six more years to phase in the new $15 an hour minimum wage,” according to Seattle’s Fox News 13.

“I know that I would have stayed here if I had 7 years, just like everyone else, if I had an even playing field,” she says. “The discrimination I’m feeling right now against my small business makes me not want to stay and do anything in Seattle.”

...

The Heritage Foundation notes the minimum wage is usually for new workers, with a low percentage of Americans receiving it. The organization also points out some other interesting statistics:

Over half of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn raises within a year—without the government’s help.
Only 2.9 percent of wage earners earn the federal minimum wage.
Most minimum-wage earners are teenagers or young adults, not heads of families.
Two-thirds work part time (defined as less than 35 hours a week).
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers live in families with incomes above 150 percent of the poverty line.
Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/sea...ent=2015-08-04
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:18 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Does the Kiosk cook? Prep the supplies? Prep the food? Unload the truck? Clean the bathrooms? Clean the tables? Manage customer complaints? Do inventory? Clean itself? Program itself?

Worrying about technology replacing jobs... Our economy never recovered from replacing elevator operators with technology.
I'm sure they could automate a lot of those jobs, sure.

But, you might notice that I specifically mentioned cashiers. Don't you care about them?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:18 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What does that have to do with kiosks?
I don't know. You brought them up. If kiosks aren't related to this topic, then there really wasn't a point in doing so.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:19 AM   #78
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Yeah, who could possibly predict what the outcome would be if we raised the minimum wage to $500? We just don't know the consequences... Impossible rebuttal...

JFC you're dumb....

That was exactly my point - Coch didn't bring up an absurdity like $500/hr. It was $30, and you can't attack it logically because you simply have zero clue what the proper inflection is.


Since Coch has the default position (leaving wages where they are) and you have the active position - it's incumbent on YOU to make the case. Not him.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:19 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I don't know. You brought them up. If kiosks aren't related to this topic, then there really wasn't a point in doing so.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/tech...st-food-robot/
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:20 AM   #80
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Yeah, who could possibly predict what the outcome would be if we raised the minimum wage to $500? We just don't know the consequences... Impossible rebuttal...

JFC you're dumb....
I'll never understand why people try to sound smart by playing dumb.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:24 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I'm sure they could automate a lot of those jobs, sure.

But, you might notice that I specifically mentioned cashiers. Don't you care about them?
Did you care about the telephone operators who were replaced by technology?

Or are you just concern controlling?

And actually, automating the small, technical skill required to say prep and cut say a salad is still a long long way off.

It is easier to replace management level jobs at a Restaurant than fine motor skills, but yet we never use automation as a threat against manager pay.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:26 AM   #82
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Okay. Technology will advance. It always has. Will this law geared at getting people off of government assistance cause more people to require government assistance or fewer?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:26 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Did you care about the telephone operators who were replaced by technology?
No.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
nd actually, automating the small, technical skill required to say prep and cut say a salad is still a long long way off.

It is easier to replace management level jobs at a Restaurant than fine motor skills, but yet we never use automation as a threat against manager pay.
So, would you care if these people got their raise and the cashiers were replaced by kiosks?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:26 AM   #84
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That was exactly my point - Coch didn't bring up an absurdity like $500/hr. It was $30, and you can't attack it logically because you simply have zero clue what the proper inflection is.


Since Coch has the default position (leaving wages where they are) and you have the active position - it's incumbent on YOU to make the case. Not him.
$30/hr is an absurdity. The only reason he argued that is because it's so absurd. There's literally zero reason to put forth a number like $30, since nobody is realistically suggesting that. It's only made because he's attempting to make a goofball hyperbolic extreme situation that he knows is unfeasible.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:28 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Okay. Technology will advance. It always has. Will this law geared at getting people off of government assistance cause more people to require government assistance or fewer?
If the raise they are looking for prices them out of the market because they could be replaced by kiosks, you mean?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:28 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
No.



So, would you care if these people got their raise and the cashiers were replaced by kiosks?
Do you care when technology replaces workers?

Why is this any different then? If it's going to happen, it will happen.

And it isn't a reason not to raise the minimum wage, so your entire point it?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:29 AM   #87
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So, would you care if these people got their raise and the cashiers were replaced by kiosks?
Everything I've read says if the minimum was increased to $10, 28M workers get wage increases and MAYBE 300-500K lose their jobs.

I'm good with that tradeoff.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:29 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Do you care when technology replaces workers?

Why is this any different then? If it's going to happen, it will happen.

And it isn't a reason not to raise the minimum wage, so your entire point it?
Not if it makes economic sense for the employer.

My point is that it would be rather ironic and amusing if these people get their raise and then some of the workers are replaced because they demanded a wage increase that results in them having no job at all.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:31 AM   #89
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Everything I've read says if the minimum was increased to $10, 28M workers get wage increases and MAYBE 300-500K lose their jobs.

I'm good with that tradeoff.
What? Loneiguana said that there's no down side to an increase. EVERYONE would benefit.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:32 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
That was exactly my point - Coch didn't bring up an absurdity like $500/hr. It was $30, and you can't attack it logically because you simply have zero clue what the proper inflection is.


Since Coch has the default position (leaving wages where they are) and you have the active position - it's incumbent on YOU to make the case. Not him.
It is absurd. If the goal is to remove people from public assistance, there is no reason to set the minimum wage twice as high as what is needed to get a worker's wages above the cutoff.

I hope that wasn't too difficult to follow.
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