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Old 07-14-2017, 02:29 PM  
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Bungled collusion is still collusion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.4cd5051349c0

The Russia scandal has entered a new phase, and there’s no going back.

For six months, the White House claimed that this scandal was nothing more than innuendo about Trump campaign collusion with Russia in meddling in the 2016 election. Innuendo for which no concrete evidence had been produced.

Yes, there were several meetings with Russian officials, some only belatedly disclosed. But that is circumstantial evidence at best. Meetings tell you nothing unless you know what happened in them. We didn’t. Some of these were casual encounters in large groups, like the famous July 2016 Kislyak-Sessions exchange of pleasantries at the Republican National Convention. Big deal.

I was puzzled. Lots of coverup, but where was the crime? Not even a third-rate burglary. For six months, smoke without fire. Yes, President Trump himself was acting very defensively, as if he were hiding something. But no one ever produced the something.

My view was: Collusion? I just don’t see it. But I’m open to empirical evidence. Show me.

The evidence is now shown. This is not hearsay, not fake news, not unsourced leaks. This is an email chain released by Donald Trump Jr. himself. A British go-between writes that there’s a Russian government effort to help Trump Sr. win the election, and as part of that effort he proposes a meeting with a “Russian government attorney” possessing damaging information on Hillary Clinton. Moreover, the Kremlin is willing to share troves of incriminating documents from the Crown Prosecutor. (Error: Britain has a Crown Prosecutor. Russia has a Prosecutor General.)

Donald Jr. emails back. “I love it.” Fatal words.

Once you’ve said “I’m in,” it makes no difference that the meeting was a bust, that the intermediary brought no such goods. What matters is what Donald Jr. thought going into the meeting, as well as Jared Kushner and then-campaign manager Paul Manafort, who were forwarded the correspondence, invited to the meeting, and attended.

“It was literally just a wasted 20 minutes, which was a shame,” Donald Jr. told Sean Hannity. A shame? On the contrary, a stroke of luck. Had the lawyer real stuff to deliver, Donald Jr. and the others would be in far deeper legal trouble. It turned out to be incompetent collusion, amateur collusion, comically failed collusion. That does not erase the fact that three top Trump campaign officials were ready to play.

It may turn out that they did later collaborate more fruitfully. We don’t know. But even if nothing else is found, the evidence is damning.

It’s rather pathetic to hear Trump apologists protesting that it’s no big deal because we Americans are always intervening in other people’s elections, and they in ours. You don’t have to go back to the ’40s and ’50s when the CIA intervened in France and Italy to keep the communists from coming to power. What about the Obama administration’s blatant interference to try to defeat Benjamin Netanyahu in the latest Israeli election? One might even add the work of groups supported by the U.S. during Russian parliamentary elections — the very origin of Vladimir Putin’s deep animus toward Clinton, then secretary of state, whom he accuses of having orchestrated the opposition.

This defense is pathetic for two reasons. First, have the Trumpites not been telling us for six months that no collusion ever happened? And now they say: Sure it happened. So what? Everyone does it.

What’s left of your credibility when you make such a casual about-face?

Second, no, not everyone does it. It’s one thing to be open to opposition research dug up in Indiana. But not dirt from Russia, a hostile foreign power that has repeatedly invaded its neighbors (Georgia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine), that buzzes our planes and ships in international waters, that opposes our every move and objective around the globe. Just last week the Kremlin killed additional U.N. sanctions we were looking to impose on North Korea for its ICBM test.

There is no statute against helping a foreign hostile power meddle in an American election. What Donald Jr. — and Kushner and Manafort — did may not be criminal. But it is not merely stupid. It is also deeply wrong, a fundamental violation of any code of civic honor.

I leave it to the lawyers to adjudicate the legalities of unconsummated collusion. But you don’t need a lawyer to see that the Trump defense — collusion as a desperate Democratic fiction designed to explain away a lost election — is now officially dead.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:20 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Oh you have often stated your opinion as fact. Nice try.
Find an example, and I'll apologize for it.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:39 AM   #272
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Donger colludes with war criminals and Democrats.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:50 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
The voices told her it was true.
The same voices telling you what happened in a meeting you weren't in?
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:52 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I don't state my opinions as fact. She does.
Yes you do.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:53 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Find an example, and I'll apologize for it.
Quote:
I don't state my opinions as fact
There ya go... That's an opinion and anything but fact, but you stated it as fact.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:01 PM   #276
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. Donger walked right into that one
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Originally Posted by manchambo View Post
So the bet is, Trump wins, I'm banned, HRC wins, you're banned?

Done
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:30 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
There ya go... That's an opinion and anything but fact, but you stated it as fact.
No it isnt. Like I said, find an example and I'll apologize
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
There ya go... That's an opinion and anything but fact, but you stated it as fact.
Doesn't make any sense? ?
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:53 PM   #279
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:09 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth View Post
Doesn't make any sense? ?
I can't help you.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:19 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
My understanding is that they spoke before Comey's testimony to ensure that Comey wasn't going to to reveal anything that could compromise Mueller's investigation.

BEP stated that Mueller coached Comey. I guess that isn't a fact. It's one of those "opinions" she likes so much.
How can you be so sure thats all that transpired?

Mueller is not only Comeys mentor, but they are literal real life best friends... would you help your best friend?
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:38 PM   #282
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Donger is the one that doesn't know the difference between a fact or an opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy 6 View Post
How can you be so sure thats all that transpired?

Mueller is not only Comeys mentor, but they are literal real life best friends... would you help your best friend?
Lou Dobbs and other news sources reported it as Comey being "coached by Mueller" after which Dobbs opined it was a "bad look." Donger reframes as being to "not compromise Mueller's investigation" — but that is still coaching. This is a statement of fact—not an opinion. So it is either true or false. Perhaps Donger just thinks it's false, therefore it's an opinion? That would not be the case because an opinion is neither true or false and carries a value judgement, such as a "bad look." It's still a bad look and Mueller should recuse himself. <––this last sentence is an opinion.

Definitions here.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=definit...logo=CT3210127


This definition applies to the context:

prompt or urge (someone) with instructions:
"he had improperly coached the witness to testify more credibly"


I will have to find a broadcast of Judge Jeanine Pirro's comments, since she's a judge.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:46 PM   #283
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Quote:
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Cray-cray
I am mocking this thread's title Dumbocrat.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:52 PM   #284
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Fact: They met, they talked before Comey testified

Comey talked with Mueller’s team ahead of testimony
Mueller won't be surprised’ about his testimony, according to one Comey associate. ( Oh he won't will he. Why is that?)

Former FBI Director James Comey's testimony Thursday is one of the most highly anticipated hearings in recent memory — but his words are unlikely to surprise special counsel Robert Mueller, whose team has been in contact with Comey, according to two of his associates.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-russia-239214

James Comey in early talks with special counsel Mueller on Russia testimony, memos


The former FBI director who was fired by President Trump has started preliminary discussions with special counsel Robert Mueller about his intention to testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee about his communications with the president....
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...mos/102316468/
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:57 PM   #285
Anyong Bluth Anyong Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Lou Dobbs and other news sources reported it as Comey being "coached by Mueller" after which Dobbs opined it was a "bad look." Donger reframes as being to "not compromise Mueller's investigation" — but that is still coaching. This is a statement of fact—not an opinion. So it is either true or false. Perhaps Donger just thinks it's false, therefore it's an opinion? That would not be the case because an opinion is neither true or false and carries a value judgement, such as a "bad look." It's still a bad look and Mueller should recuse himself. <––this last sentence is an opinion.

Definitions here.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=definit...logo=CT3210127


This definition applies to the context:

prompt or urge (someone) with instructions:
"he had improperly coached the witness to testify more credibly"


I will have to find a broadcast of Judge Jeanine Pirro's comments, since she's a judge.
My dog has a better grasp on legal matters than you. Plus, he yaps less.
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