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Old 11-12-2012, 02:51 PM  
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Victoria's Secret Show Angers Native Americans

When do we get to be done with having to hear this crap? It's hot bitches in undergarments FFS

By Richard Ruelas The Republic | azcentral.com Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:18 AM

The Victoria’s Secret might have meant to tease and titillate. It ended up sparking outrage among Native Americans for having model Karlie Kloss walk out wearing a headdress that flowed to the ground.

Photos of the Wednesday night fashion show were posted online and comments, mainly from the Native American community, followed.

In an article posted on lastrealindians.com , Ruth Hopkins wrote that the costume added to the hyper-sexualization of Native women. yea right She also said the war bonnet is considered, among her Sioux tribe, an honor worn only by someone who displayed valor in battle.

“We’re a people, not a trend,” she wrote. “We don’t wear costumes. We dress in regalia, and every single piece means something special.”

The Victoria’s Secret Facebook page has been peppered with outraged comments. Linda Kewanimptewa of Prescott posted that she was boycotting the store. oh please, don't stop bringing in your beads to trade. Victoria's Secret will go out of business without people like you. “I loved your stores so much,” she wrote, “but thanks for disrespecting my culture!”

A petition on change.org has asked the lingerie company to apologize. The Victoria’s Secret fashion show is scheduled to air on CBS on Dec. 4.

In September, the handbag and clothing company Paul Frank held a pow-wow-themed fashion show that featured plastic tomahawks. It apologized after complaints from the Native American community.

Earlier this month, No Doubt premiered a video for its new song, “Looking Hot.” It had singer Gwen Stefani wearing a headband and beaded dress and battling band members dressed as black hat-wearing cowboys. The band pulled the video down on Monday after receiving complaints from F.A.I.R. Media, which promotes accurate representations of indigenous people. Idiots. As if Gwen didn't make that look better than it ever has and do your image a favor

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...americans.html
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
From a quick Google search, so they may not be super accurate, but populations in 1600:

China: 231-250 million
India: 100 million
Africa: 50 million
North America: ~100 million (before plague)

Also, the English and the like had been trying to colonize North America for at least 150 years, and had failed. The Vikings had been trying for 500 years.
90% of them had died prior to the arrival of the colonists?
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:30 PM   #107
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Man. I just vividly remembered an argument I had with one of my elementary school teachers. We had to memorize the state bird, flower, animal, etc. She told us it was illegal to pick Bluebonnets and I thought that was silly. That didn't go over well.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:36 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
90% of them had died prior to the arrival of the colonists?
Estimates seem to range from 90 to 95%.

http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/va.../smallpox.html
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 PM   #109
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I can see how those viewpoints would have come about. Growing up in Iowa we had Indian (native american) influence all over. Lots of our towns, rivers, creeks, counties were named with Indian names. We went to Cherokee, IA to see the rain dancers. We grew up knowing and learning how resourceful a people the midwest Indian was; how large their culture was, how sad that they had gone.
It's sad that I didn't find out about my small amount of Native American heritage until I was a teenager. My grandmother mentioned it to me only once. When she left the room after explaining it (a lot of the "Indian Princess" stuff) my grandfather leaned over to me and mumbled, "Just another ****er."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for multiculturalism, is it?
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #110
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No, don't go introducing facts into history. You'll mess it up.
True. When I was in school (PNW in the 70's), we were taught that Indians were nobel savages that revered and lived as one with nature. Then the greedy evil white man came in with their guns and smallpox and wiped most of them out. Turns out that it was a lot more complex than that.

1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles Mann is a good book on the subject.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
It's sad that I didn't find out about my small amount of Native American heritage until I was a teenager. My grandmother mentioned it to me only once. When she left the room after explaining it (a lot of the "Indian Princess" stuff) my grandfather leaned over to me and mumbled, "Just another ****er."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for multiculturalism, is it?
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:42 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
It's sad that I didn't find out about my small amount of Native American heritage until I was a teenager. My grandmother mentioned it to me only once. When she left the room after explaining it (a lot of the "Indian Princess" stuff) my grandfather leaned over to me and mumbled, "Just another ****er."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for multiculturalism, is it?
a "what"er?
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:49 PM   #113
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a "what"er?
That particular slur is rightfully filtered. Use your imagination. Lucky for me that my uncle happens to be an archeologist so I was able to find out more.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:08 PM   #114
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Estimates seem to range from 90 to 95%.

http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/va.../smallpox.html

I think I mentioned this in a thread a while back, but the thing I don't get is why this was a one-way deal. Europeans show up and cough, and 90 million Native Americans start dying. But why didn't the Native Americans cough and kill all of the arriving Europeans?

And presumably no diseases went back to Europe with Columbus and John Smith and Verrazano and all those guys. Why not? Why didn't Europe take the same disease beatdown that the Native Americans took? Was it just sheer luck? Did the Viking expeditions somehow inoculate Europeans? And why didn't the Vikings start the North American plague? Or is it possible that something like the Black Plague was carried from America with the Vikings and nailed the white folk 200 years earlier?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:11 PM   #115
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I think I mentioned this in a thread a while back, but the thing I don't get is why this was a one-way deal. Europeans show up and cough, and 90 million Native Americans start dying. But why didn't the Native Americans cough and kill all of the arriving Europeans?

And presumably no diseases went back to Europe with Columbus and John Smith and Verrazano and all those guys. Why not? Why didn't Europe take the same disease beatdown that the Native Americans took? Was it just sheer luck? Did the Viking expeditions somehow inoculate Europeans? And why didn't the Vikings start the North American plague? Or is it possible that something like the Black Plague was carried from America with the Vikings and nailed the white folk 200 years earlier?
The Europeans lived in cramped conditions with a long history of animal husbandry. They had already been through multiple plagues and represented, genetically, the survivors of those plagues.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:14 PM   #116
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I think I mentioned this in a thread a while back, but the thing I don't get is why this was a one-way deal. Europeans show up and cough, and 90 million Native Americans start dying. But why didn't the Native Americans cough and kill all of the arriving Europeans?

And presumably no diseases went back to Europe with Columbus and John Smith and Verrazano and all those guys. Why not? Why didn't Europe take the same disease beatdown that the Native Americans took? Was it just sheer luck? Did the Viking expeditions somehow inoculate Europeans? And why didn't the Vikings start the North American plague? Or is it possible that something like the Black Plague was carried from America with the Vikings and nailed the white folk 200 years earlier?
Off the top of my head, the reason the NA's were so susceptible is because they were such a homogeneous group that they genetically weren't prepared to deal with the infections. Things that would just get a European under the weather could be devastating to NA's. More diverse groups like the Europeans were actually more susceptible to parasites.

Sorry for the shoddy explanation. It was in the book that I mentioned above but it's been awhile since I've read that part and I don't remember the exact reasoning.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:17 PM   #117
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Ah, nice answers. Thanks.

So essentially the Native Americans died because they had healthy country lifestyles in fresh air and they didn't score with Asian and African chicks.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:19 PM   #118
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Ah, nice answers. Thanks.

So essentially the Native Americans died because they had healthy country lifestyles in fresh air and they didn't score with Asian and African chicks.
Imagine what this country would be like had there been an unbroken line of Native American population into the modern world.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:26 PM   #119
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Off the top of my head, the reason the NA's were so susceptible is because they were such a homogeneous group that they genetically weren't prepared to deal with the infections. Things that would just get a European under the weather could be devastating to NA's. More diverse groups like the Europeans were actually more susceptible to parasites.

Sorry for the shoddy explanation. It was in the book that I mentioned above but it's been awhile since I've read that part and I don't remember the exact reasoning.
I've heard that as well.
It's the same problem that a lot of our endangered animal species face (cheetahs specifically).
New genes in the pool is never a bad thing.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:36 PM   #120
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Imagine what this country would be like had there been an unbroken line of Native American population into the modern world.
I'm envisioning more of a Palestine/Israel situation.

One thing that the ancient civilizations were good at was wiping out the indigenous people when they took over a place. It made continued resistance a non-issue. It apparently happened more accidentally in the New World, but it still happened, and the Europeans ended up with an easier conquest as a result.

The Romans appear to be a big exception to that rule, though, which says that you can take over a place and not have to kill everyone who was there before. But I think the Romans brought a lot of benefits with them and gave full citizenship to the conquered people, so maybe that quelled resistance as much as killing would've.

It makes one wonder if we offered American citizenship to Iraq and let them be the 52nd state (after Puerto Rico, apparently), would that place settle down? I'm only half joking on this.
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