Game of Thrones (spoiler-free zone)

[keg in kc]

A few have suggested it, might as well test the waters. The idea is to give people who haven't read the books a safe place to talk about the show.

A few quick ground rules:

• No Spoilers!!!!! for upcoming episodes.
• Larger Song of Ice and Fire discussion should be limited to the other thread although I think a tiny bit of book delving to fill in holes should be okay (example of this would be talking about Catelyn and her treatment of the wolves in the novel, which was alluded to on TV but never really made clear...)
• Everything that happened that week is fair game once an episode airs. So if you don't watch on Sunday night, I'd stay outta here until you do...

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Aries Walker

Regarding last night's episode, let's not forget the other guy Arya brutally killed - slowwwwwwwly inserting that longsword into his chest while he was helpless on the floor.

Eeshk.

That was the way he killed her friend. Payback is a bitch.

[KevB]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

That was the way he killed her friend. Payback is a bitch.

No, he's talking about the first guy she killed in the pub. She whacked him over the head with a vase, took his sword and quietly put him to sleep. Then she took that sword and took the guy you're talking about out at the legs.

[Aries Walker]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

That was the way he killed her friend. Payback is a bitch.

No, that was the guy she slowly and methodically stabbed through the throat.

I'm talking about the guy she slowly and methodically stabbed through the chest.

I get a hunch that more body locations are to come.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Bowser

A wise choice. Had I known this series was going to be filled with such awesomeness, I would have done the same (finished the audio books before season 1).

The books are filled with such detail that you can see in the show where they have to leave out some of that, and sometimes it gives a type of bouncy feel to those that have read or know the series. Going into these shows not knowing anything would be the way to go, if given the chance.

Felt that way after I read the first book. Have stuck strictly with the TV series since.

[Ragged Robin]

meh

[Jerm]

Love the direction they're taking with Arya and her odd relationship with the Dog...also can't believe Jamie has been transformed into a likable and sympathetic character lol.

[Fish]

Crazy how things have changed... I actually felt sorry for Sansa. Actually cared about Jamie. Gained respect for the Hound. Saw Denarius smile. Grinned at Arya becoming a cold-blooded killer.

G.R.R. Martin, you so crazy man....

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Fish

Crazy how things have changed... I actually felt sorry for Sansa. Actually cared about Jamie. Gained respect for the Hound. Saw Denarius smile. Grinned at Arya becoming a cold-blooded killer.

G.R.R. Martin, you so crazy man....

I REALLY don't think this counts as a spoiler because it's a different approach to something you already know about in the show, but I'll paywall it in an abundance of caution. But really, don't be afraid.

Spoiler!

In the books, they go to her reciting her kill list a lot more. It's really effective in the audiobooks, as it creates a kind of mantra and the narrator imbues a growing sense of ruthlessness to the recitation

[keg in kc]

To absolutely nobody's surprise, it's been renewed for two more years (seasons 5 and 6).

[Hawk]

Poor Arya, the show has done a good job showing her rage and ruthlessness, but I think it could use a little work on showing how lost and sad she is. I'll never forget the first Arya chapter after the Red Wedding happens. She was soooooo close to being re-united with her mom and Robb, then only to have them killed right as she is reaching them. So sad.

From AFFC: "I have a hole where my heart should be, she thought, and nowhere else to go.... She could feel the hole inside her every morning when she woke. It was a hollow place, an emptiness where her heart had been, where her brothers had lived, and her parents.... The hole will never feel any better, she told herself when she went to sleep."

[Hawk]

Also, Here is the summary I get from another site. I know a lot of show watchers who have not read the books find these helpful to explain things without providing any spoilers:

GOT Scorecard: Season 4, Episode 1 Reply
"Two Swords"

Jaime Lannister

We open with Tywin Lannister drawing a sword of Valyrian steel. The hilt is removed, and the blade placed in a vessel to be melted down and reforged. The original sword is large enough to make two new swords, one somewhat smaller than the other. This is the first and most obvious meaning of the episode title.

The sword once belonged to Ned Stark, aka "someone who no longer has need of it", per Tywin. Tywin gives one of the new swords to Jaime, and explains that it was forged by the best of the three living smiths who know how to work with Valyrian steel. Why only three? Because Valyrian steel is no longer available in the world, ever since the Doom of Valyria. Presumably, the distance from the smith's home in Volantis explains why Tywin is just now getting around to doing something with Ned's sword.

Now the Lannisters have a sword (two, actually) to rival those of the oldest houses in Westeros. They have tried to purchase them in the past, IIRC, but not even all the gold in Casterly Rock could get them one. Treachery has filled that void.

Tywin also wants Jaime to leave King's Landing and go back to Casterly Rock to rule in Tywin's name. Tywin expects to spend the rest of his life serving as the King's Hand. Jaime has been changed over the course of the first three seasons. How much is still to be determined. Enough, though, that he is willing and able to tell his father "no", and stand his ground, which is something he wasn't able to do very well in prior meetings.

Tyrion Lannister

Tyrion, Bronn and Podrick wait on the road to Dorne.

All we have heard of Dorne to this point is that Myrcella (Joffrey's little sister) was shipped off to Dorne by the scheming Tyrion as part of his effort to cement the Lannisters' hold on the Iron Throne. In typical Tyrion fashion, his efforts are entirely unappreciated, and earned him the enmity of his sister, as well as that of Pycelle (who was exposed as a leak during the process).

Dorne is the southernmost part of Westeros. It is largely inhospitable desert. It also lays claim to being the only part of Westeros that was not conquered outright by the Targaryens when they arrived with their dragons. Rather, they joined the Seven Kingdoms by virtue of marriage several times over the years.

At any rate, Tyrion has been sent to wait for Doran Martell, the Prince of Dorne, who is expected to arrive for the marriage of Joffrey to Margaery. Bronn, in his direct fashion, asks why Tyrion got this duty. Tyrion tells Bronn (and himself) that he has been sent because of his diplomatic abilities. It seems that the Martells of Dorne are not bosom buddies with the Lannisters, and diplomacy will be tricky but necessary. Bronn points out that perhaps it's because if it turns to bloodshed, the loss of Tyrion won't hurt Tywin too badly.

The entourage from Dorne finally makes its way up the road. Bronn (who mentions later that he's getting old) can't quite make out the sigils, but young Podrick has better eyesight and a better working knowledge of the Dornish sigils. He mentions wild lemons on a purple field (the sigil of House Dalt of Lemonwood), a vulture grasping a baby (the sigil of House Blackmont) and a crowned skull (the sigil of House Manwoody of Kingsgrave). These are the nobles that have accompanied the representative of the noble house of Dorne. Two pieces of news for Tyrion, though. One - Prince Doran is in ill health and didn't make the trip. Two - his younger brother Prince Oberyn Martell arrived in King's Landing at dawn, well ahead of the entourage. Tyrion is concerned, telling Bronn that they must find Oberyn before he kills somebody...or several somebodies.

Oberyn Martell

Oberyn is a complicated fellow. He is devoted to Ellaria Sand, mother of 4 of Oberyn's bastard children and a bastard herself (Sand is the surname of bastards born in Dorne, much like Snow for those born in the North, Stone for those born in the Eyrie, and so forth). Oberyn has more than 4 bastards. He has 8, all daughters, and together they are known as the Sand Snakes. But presumably more will come out about them later.

Oberyn likes women and men, but most of all he likes damaging Lannisters. While he's in Littlefinger's whorehouse lining up some fun, he hears a couple of Lannister men singing the Rains of Castamere, which you will recall is the song the band was playing at the Red Wedding reception. Oberyn goes to make trouble, while Ellaria tries to calm him. She is unsuccessful. Tyrion walks in on Oberyn as he is taking care of the two Lannister men.

Tyrion and Oberyn speak about Oberyn's motivations for being in King's Landing. Oberyn explains that the last time he was in the city was for the wedding of his sister Elia to Rhaegar Targaryen. He was very close to his sister, who was first abandoned by Rhaegar for another woman (who was that, I wonder?) and then raped and murdered by Gregor Clegane, on orders from Tywin Lannister at the end of the resulting war. The two children of Elia and Rhaegar were butchered, as well. He urges Tyrion to tell Tywin that he, Oberyn, is in the city, and that the Lannisters are not the only ones who pay their debts.

Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen

Daeny's dragons are getting big, and they are getting a bit wild, too. Daenerys almost gets bitten when she tries to cool down a fight over fresh meat.

She and her army are on the way to Meereen, another slave city, to free those slaves. She comes to a mile marker decorated with the corpse of a young girl slave, and is told that every mile marker along the way is similarly decorated. There are 163 miles to Meereen, and Daeny demands to see every corpse before they bury it. She will not be coddled.

Daario Naharis, now played by a new actor, counsels her that she needs to know a land to rule it, to understand the ways of the slaves following her in order to truly lead them. He charms her.

Sansa Stark

Sansa is crushed by the news of the death of her brother and mother. Not just the fact of the deaths, but the details - the direwolf head sewn on Robb's body, Catelyn's body thrown in the river after her throat was cut to the bone. She believes she is now alone in the world. She refuses to eat, despite the browbeating of Shae and the entreaties of her husband Tyrion. Tyrion clearly wants to help her, but he can't. Sansa retreats to the Godwood, not to pray but to avoid people talking to her.

There she is stalked by Ser Dontos, the man who Joffrey ordered drowned in wine until Sansa intervened. She averted Dontos' death by telling Joff it was bad luck to kill someone on your name day.

Dontos is pitiful, but he wants to help Sansa. He gives her a necklace that his mother's mother wore. We finally see a smile from Sansa as she accepts this gift nobly.

Shae

Shae is upset with Tyrion - with how he tries to take care of Sansa, with how he refuses to have sex with her. She confronts him with Tyrion's plot to have her removed to safety, bribing her with diamonds to leave the city. Tyrion doesn't know what she's talking about, but Shae doesn't believe that. Nevertheless, when Shae asks him point blank if he wants her to stay, he doesn't answer. Shae storms off, and a spy watches it all. Are the two sweethearts no longer?

Jaime/Cersei

Qyburn has fitted Jaime with a new hand made of gold. He has also cured Cersei of some mysterious symptoms, which she won't discuss with Jaime. Jaime tries to get close with Cersei again, but she tells him that too much has happened since he left her alone to face Robert's death, the Battle of the Blackwater, the rise of Margaery, Myrcella's departure, etc. She tells him that he "took too long". They are interrupted by the spy who watched Shae's departure from Tyrion. Are the two sweethearts no longer?

In the North

Tormund Giantsbane and Ygritte wait for reinforcements from Mance Rayder. While waiting, Tormund accuses Ygritte of not really wanting to kill Jon, else her arrows would have found fatal places instead of merely painful ones. They are interrupted by the arrival of reinforcement. They are the Thenns, a tribe of men from North of the Wall who kept to themselves before the uniting force of Mance. The Thenns claim to be the last of the First Men, and they are also cannibals...which explains their popularity.

Meanwhile, Jon reminisces about Robb to Sam. He says he wanted to hate Robb, because he was better than Jon at everything, but he couldn't. Sam turns that about, pointing out that Jon is likewise better than Sam at everything.

Jon goes in front of the leaders of the Night's Watch, to answer for his crimes against them. The panel is made up of Janos Slynt - he of the betrayal of Ned Stark and former leader of the City Watch in King's Landing - Ser Alliser Thorne, Jon's former teacher as Master at Arms and no fan of Jon - and Maester Aemon. Jon is accused of murdering Qhorin Halfhand. He confesses to killing him, not as a murder but as a means to infiltrate the Wildlings. Halfhand was dead meat, anyway, and made his death a useful one by giving Jon some street cred with Mance Rayder. Jon ends up confessing to lots more, too. To eating with the Wildlings, climbing the Wall with the Wildlings, and to breaking his vows by laying with a Wildling girl. He points out that Rayder has an army of 100,000 Wildlings, including the Thenns, the Hornfoots, the Ice River clans...even giants. It's interesting to note that Janos scoffs at the idea of giants, but Thorne and Aemon do not. Jon relates that the Wildlings who are south of the Wall will attack Castle Black in coordination with Mance's massive army north of the Wall.

Aemon unilaterally frees Jon, to the dismay of Thorne.

Margaery, Olanna and Brienne...and Joffrey and Jaime...and Jaime and Brienne

Margaery is trying to pick out some jewelry for her wedding. Olanna thinks it's all crap. Margaery suggests that she let Joffrey pick out a necklace, and it would likely be a necklace of sparrow heads. Olanna warns her to keep her mouth shut. Still, it's clear that Margaery is not under any illusion about what she's getting into.

They are interrupted by Brienne, who informs Margaery that Renly was killed by a shadow with Stannis' face on it. She swears to avenge their king. Margaery points out that Joffrey is their king.

Speak of the devil...Joffrey spends 1:56 on screen in this episode, but delivers an industrial strength level of douchiness. He mocks Jaime's missing hand, mocks his lack of spectacular deeds, talks about how he, Joffrey, broke Stannis' army and saved the city, and how Margaery keeps the city folk fed only with his leave. He seems to forget that he ran to his mommy when the fighting got rough.

Incidentally, Joff mentions Ser Duncan the Tall. If you haven't read the tales of Dunk and Egg, you should do that to learn more of Duncan.

Brienne is guilting Jaime about his oath to return Sansa to safety. Jaime points out that he can't return her to her mother, and that King's Landing is as safe as anywhere for Sansa. Brienne is insistent that he fulfill his oath. Jaime is pensive.

Arya and the Hound

The action finally gets hot. Arya and Sandor ride through the remains of an attacked caravan - corpses and flies decorate the road. Arya is unmoved. Her main concern is getting a horse so she can get away from the Hound's stench, as she puts it. She bandies words with him, and Sandor finally reveals he intends to sell Arya to her Aunt Lysa in the Eyrie.

Hungry, they come upon an inn. However, there are five horses there, meaning there are five men there, and after all they just rode through corpses. A couple of the men come out of the inn to take a piss, and Arya recognizes Polliver as one of Gregor Clegane's men, and the one who stabbed her friend Lommy Greenhands in the throat with Arya's sword Needle when he couldn't walk.

Before Sandor can do anything, Arya has started to make her move into the inn. Sandor has no choice but to follow - Arya is his meal ticket.

The Hound is recognized by Polliver. Polliver wants Sandor to join their pillaging of the countryside. Torturing people day after day is getting tiresome, but there is good money to be made. Sandor plays it cool, but he makes it clear to Polliver that he won't be joining the team. Then it starts to get a little nasty in tone. There's talk of rape. Polliver expresses interest in Arya for that activity. Sandor demands some chicken.

Polliver: You lived your life for the King, and now you're going to die for some chickens?

Sandor: Someone is.

There is a pregnant pause, and then chaos.

Arya hangs back while the Hound shoves the table onto Polliver and starts killing his men. Sandor is knocked to the ground, but fights his way back up. He gets knocked down again, and a knife held to his throat. In one of the more gruesome deaths on the show (which is saying something), Sandor grabs the hand holding the knife, grabs the back of the guy's head, and repeatedly impales the head on the knife like a fratboy grabbing the back of a sorority girl's head at a drive-in.

Sandor is distracted. Arya grabs a sword from one guy and skewers him with it. Polliver is coming up behind Sandor, but Arya slashes him across the back of the legs. He goes down, and Arya retrieves Needle. She taunts Polliver with the same words he used before killing Lommy. She runs him through the throat in very cold-blooded, deliberate fashion. She used two swords to kill the two men. Also part of the title of the episode?

The episode ends with Arya on her new horse, following Sandor.


...

[KevB]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I REALLY don't think this counts as a spoiler because it's a different approach to something you already know about in the show, but I'll paywall it in an abundance of caution. But really, don't be afraid.

Spoiler!

In the books, they go to her reciting her kill list a lot more. It's really effective in the audiobooks, as it creates a kind of mantra and the narrator imbues a growing sense of ruthlessness to the recitation

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by KevB

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.

Haha, that's exactly who the Red Viper reminded me of when I watched it.

Hello, my name is Oberyn Martell, you Lannisters had my sister raped and killed, prepare to die!

[The Franchise]

Shae is a worthless character.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Shae is a worthless character.

Yup. Dumb bitch won't listen. All she does it whine.