Game of Thrones *Spoiler* Thread

[keg in kc]

There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...

I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Can't wait to see Arya stumbling around as a blind girl assassin in training.

I may be in the minority, but I hate where her storyline went.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by PGM

I may be in the minority, but I hate where her storyline went.

I'm with you. I disliked it as well, though it got better as ADWD progressed.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by NewChief

I'm with you. I disliked it as well, though it got better as ADWD progressed.

They are taking the Starks and giving them all kinds of potentially important roles in the final two books.

Catelyn - Now a zombified badass, who knows where that will go

Arya - kickass assassin and hopefully reunites with Nymeria

Sansa - looks to become queen of the vale and possibly the entire north

Bran - could become the most central character in the entire book

Jon - who knows, but it will be big

Rickon - In Skagos right now so we can bet he will be a wild one when they find him

You also have the direwolves Summer, Shaggydog and Ghost still around.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by Swanman

They are taking the Starks and giving them all kinds of potentially important roles in the final two books.

Catelyn - Now a zombified badass, who knows where that will go

Arya - kickass assassin and hopefully reunites with Nymeria

Sansa - looks to become queen of the vale and possibly the entire north

Bran - could become the most central character in the entire book

Jon - who knows, but it will be big

Rickon - In Skagos right now so we can bet he will be a wild one when they find him

You also have the direwolves Summer, Shaggydog and Ghost still around.

Or GRRM is just going to kill them all off in the prelude chapter to the next book and say, "Actually, the Boltons win!"

I've just become less and less convinced of GRRM's ability to bring this thing to a satisfactory conclusion. He just keeps spinning off new bullshit complications and plots that just stall things even more.

It's also why I think the HBO series will fizzle out before it reaches a conclusion. Audiences and critics are going to get impatient with it after this season. They're already impatient with this season. The Red Wedding, Joffrey's death, Tywin's death... those will tide people over for another season... but getting through the long slog of the next two books while maintaining a satisfied audience will be really difficult.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by PGM

I may be in the minority, but I hate where her storyline went.

A girl is nobody. I kind of like it. She's going to kick ass.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Or GRRM is just going to kill them all off in the prelude chapter to the next book and say, "Actually, the Boltons win!"

I've just become less and less convinced of GRRM's ability to bring this thing to a satisfactory conclusion. He just keeps spinning off new bullshit complications and plots that just stall things even more.

It's also why I think the HBO series will fizzle out before it reaches a conclusion. Audiences and critics are going to get impatient with it after this season. They're already impatient with this season. The Red Wedding, Joffrey's death, Tywin's death... those will tide people over for another season... but getting through the long slog of the next two books while maintaining a satisfied audience will be really difficult.

I'm 2/3rds of the way through Dance wiht Dragons and I'm starting to agree.

Jordan couldn't bring himself to finish Wheel of Time, seemingly, endlessly creating more loose ends and getting further and further away from the core/crux of the story. He had to die and then Sanderson finished it off.

GRRM seems like he may have the same problem.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Swanman

They are taking the Starks and giving them all kinds of potentially important roles in the final two books.

Catelyn - Now a zombified badass, who knows where that will go

We have yet to see if she's a badass. She's likely still the same moronic decision maker who always chooses like the Nazi leader at the end of Last Crusade.

Arya - kickass assassin and hopefully reunites with Nymeria
I wouldn't expect anything as warm and fluffy as her happily reuniting with Nymeria (who last saw Arya a few years and several thrown rocks ago), but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if at some point during the showdown with the White Walkers (which we ALL know is coming), that large raging wolf pack Nymeria is leading is used against the walkers.

Sansa - looks to become queen of the vale and possibly the entire north
Sansa will probably lose all hope and naivete that made her so freaking annoying in the first place... and then get to marry Harrold Hardyng (who turns out to be the prince she dreamed about when she was a young moron)

Bran - could become the most central character in the entire book
Bran will have some role... likely pulling strings to help win the war against the Walkers. Don't think he ever SEES any of his family face-to-face again, though.

Jon - who knows, but it will be big
Azor Ahai will first be reborn by the Red Woman's kiss (which ends her mortal life, I think), then lead the war against the Walkers, marry the Prince(ss) who was Promised, and lead the rebuilding of Westeros into a brilliant new empire.

Rickon - In Skagos right now so we can bet he will be a wild one when they find him

The next Stark of Winterfell.

You also have the direwolves Summer, Shaggydog and Ghost still around.

My thoughts...

[kaplin42]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Jon - who knows, but it will be big
Azor Ahai will first be reborn by the Red Woman's kiss (which ends her mortal life, I think), then lead the war against the Walkers, marry the Prince(ss) who was Promised, and lead the rebuilding of Westeros into a brilliant new empire.

Would be awesome. I would love to see Jon's plot go on. But with the track record of people just dying, I would not be surprised if he is just dead.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by kaplin42

Would be awesome. I would love to see Jon's plot go on. But with the track record of people just dying, I would not be surprised if he is just dead.

There is a ton of evidence pointing to Jon's story continuing in some form.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by kaplin42

Would be awesome. I would love to see Jon's plot go on. But with the track record of people just dying, I would not be surprised if he is just dead.

I think just being dead is probably the least likely of all the possible outcomes, though it wouldn't surprise me. If I remember right, he calls out to Ghost in his last moments, so it's plausible that he could warg into him until his body is resurrected.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Or GRRM is just going to kill them all off in the prelude chapter to the next book and say, "Actually, the Boltons win!"

I've just become less and less convinced of GRRM's ability to bring this thing to a satisfactory conclusion. He just keeps spinning off new bullshit complications and plots that just stall things even more.

It's also why I think the HBO series will fizzle out before it reaches a conclusion. Audiences and critics are going to get impatient with it after this season. They're already impatient with this season. The Red Wedding, Joffrey's death, Tywin's death... those will tide people over for another season... but getting through the long slog of the next two books while maintaining a satisfied audience will be really difficult.

I think GRRM will be able to bring this to a good conclusion, provided he doesn't die first. It's a very complicated plot, but there's an interconnected-ness to all the different storylines that makes me feel he will be able to wrap everything up neatly.

I agree about the show. They're going to have to start cutting major portions of the books to keep people's interest.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by kaplin42

Would be awesome. I would love to see Jon's plot go on. But with the track record of people just dying, I would not be surprised if he is just dead.

"When the red star bleeds and darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."

Now, many read this and think "Dany" which is entirely possible.

But in the Jon Snow "betrayal" scene, we see Jon's wound smoking, the man who gave it to him crying (Salt) and a night whose rainment is made of stars dying/bleeding/etc.

I just don't see any way this story wraps up without Jon Snow and Dany being AA and the Prince who was Promised. Conceivably, both could fill either role.

[keg in kc]

I don't think Jon is perma-dead. There's been too much setup.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

"When the red star bleeds and darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."

Now, many read this and think "Dany" which is entirely possible.

But in the Jon Snow "betrayal" scene, we see Jon's wound smoking, the man who gave it to him crying (Salt) and a night whose rainment is made of stars dying/bleeding/etc.

I just don't see any way this story wraps up without Jon Snow and Dany being AA and the Prince who was Promised. Conceivably, both could fill either role.

Yes.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

"When the red star bleeds and darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."

Now, many read this and think "Dany" which is entirely possible.

But in the Jon Snow "betrayal" scene, we see Jon's wound smoking, the man who gave it to him crying (Salt) and a night whose rainment is made of stars dying/bleeding/etc.

I just don't see any way this story wraps up without Jon Snow and Dany being AA and the Prince who was Promised. Conceivably, both could fill either role.

The guy who gets killed by Wun Wun the giant in that scene was the result of a bet GRRM had with a buddy. Martin is a Giants fan and his buddy is a Cowboys fan so the bet was if the Cowboys beat the Giants that year, his buddy would be in the book, thus Ser Patrek. In typical GRRM fashion, Ser Patrek, with the star (Cowboys) symbol, gets murdered by a Giant.