Chiefs Mellinger: Fire Sutton - Page 4

excessive · 01-07-2018, 04:03 PM

Chiefs need change, and they should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton
BY SAM MELLINGER

smellinger@kcstar.com

UPDATED 40 MINUTES AGO

Bob Sutton needs to be fired.

The Chiefs should be looking for a new defensive coordinator. There is no joy in calling for a man’s job, but then, there is no joy in watching a defense underperform its talent and fair expectations over and over and over again.

This can’t continue. That is plain. That is obvious.

Andy Reid isn’t ready to talk about this yet and that’s fine, that’s understandable, that’s his right. What’s more — that’s smart.

The head coach lives this in a way that requires space for any major change. Emotional decisions are usually bad decisions, and Reid had to know the Will You Fire Your DC question was coming in the postmortem press conference the day after another embarrassing postseason collapse.

And he had to know he would answer it with a vague non-answer.

“Time in this league has a funny way of working,” Reid said. “You’ve gotta step back. You’ve gotta evaluate. You’ve gotta go through that process. Look at what’s real, and what’s not. You don’t want to do it when you’re emotional or still tied into what happened obviously last night.

“You’ve gotta fight that. A question like that, you’ve gotta fight that. You step back and you evaluate it, and do what’s right for the Chiefs. If you always come back to that, you’re going to be OK.”

That’s an 86-word excerpt from a longer answer that can be generally summarized: “I just had my heart ripped out, again, and am not yet ready to make any decision more serious than lunch.”

Chiefs' Andy Reid reflects on Wild Card playoff loss: 'We've got to do better'
Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid held a press conference a day after the Chiefs’ 22-21 loss to the Tennessee Titans in an AFC Wild Card playoff game. It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record.

Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Again, you can understand where he’s coming from. Even if he somehow has already decided to move on from Sutton, he hasn’t had a chance to tell his friend and longtime assistant yet, and taking some time comes with no downside.

Potential replacements aren’t being hired, and in fact may still be working. More to the point, Reid’s coaching philosophy centers around personal accountability.

After every loss, he says some form of, “we need to get better and that starts with me.” After the offense played dead in the second half against the Titans, Reid said he called the plays that didn’t work and assistant Matt Nagy called the plays that did.

Firing his defensive coordinator the next day would reek of scapegoating.

But if he hasn’t yet, Reid must soon come to the cold and unemotional conclusion that the Chiefs need a new voice for the defense.

That needs to be only part of the change. Alex Smith must be replaced by Patrick Mahomes, offensive line coach Andy Heck needs to make a convincing case to keep his job, and no position group on the team underperformed as much as the defensive line coached by Reid’s son Britt.

Reid himself should wear the biggest chunk of this loss. He just finished his 19th season as a head coach and by now has earned a reputation for regular season success and postseason failure.

Seventy-eight teams have led by 18 or more at halftime of a playoff game. Only four have lost, and two have been coached by Reid in the last five seasons. He is tied for the third-most playoff losses of any coach in NFL history, and the two ahead of him won multiple Super Bowls.

Chiefs are on this list twice: Teams blowing an 18-point halftime lead in NFL playoffs
According to ESPN research, Andy Reid's Chiefs teams are responsible for two of the only four times in modern NFL playoff history a team has blown an 18-point or larger halftime lead.

Neil Nakahodo, David Eulitt, Shane Keyser, John Sleezer, Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Since 2001, he has won just one playoff game as the underdog, and lost seven as the favorite.

The loss to the Titans followed a familiar pattern: the offense went cold, the defense couldn’t get off the field and the Chiefs had a chance to win at the end and failed.

The standard for this team was always postseason success, so the outcome is a failure, and any credible evaluation of another wasted opportunity must acknowledge Reid’s share of this.

But he’s not going anywhere, for better or worse. Chairman Clark Hunt values the stability Reid has created after the horror show Pioli years, Reid signed a contract extension last summer, and he’ll oversee the quarterback transition to Patrick Mahomes.

Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion.

The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt).

Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson: 'If you’re good enough, you come out with that win'
Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson called Saturday's playoff loss to the Titans one of the toughest of his career.

Sam Mcdowell The Kansas City Star
The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense.

This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate.

His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap.

Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts.

If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed.

Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down.

Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter.

Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue.

Let us say it one more time: Sutton is not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest.

Reid is Sutton’s boss, and could’ve better protected his defense and an 18-point lead with more carries for the league’s leading rusher.

Even so, the offense could’ve won the game on its last possession, and this is a staggering fact: all but one of the Chiefs’ losses this season could’ve been wins if the offense performed better on its last drive.

The Chiefs aren’t giving the next defensive coordinator a fair shot if they don’t improve the personnel, too, which is part of why the team needs to replace Smith with Mahomes. The change would create $17 million in cap space and whatever draft picks they can acquire in a trade, which is enough for a corner, edge rusher, and defensive lineman.

There can be no doubt, in any part of the organization, about whether change is needed. We can have lively and smart debates about how far that change needs to go.

But there is no question that it needs to include the defensive coordinator, whenever Reid is ready.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...193446229.html

Molitoth · 01-07-2018, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey

Sutton overall isn't horrible and does a decent enough job preparing but the guy struggles at making adjustments which is why he needs to go. Too many times he's been out coached in the second half of games. I don't blame Peters for blowing up on him earlier in the year. He knows it too.

Me either. Bob Sutton is a shithead.

Coach · 01-07-2018, 05:04 PM

2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

jaa1025 · 01-07-2018, 05:05 PM

The D line should have been the strength of the defense but it took a huge step backwards. Houston was used horribly. All the CB's took a step back. Safeties were terrible. The scheme throughout the year was probably one of the worst I've ever seen.

mnchiefsguy · 01-07-2018, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

Holy ****ing shit, that is bad.

Molitoth · 01-07-2018, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey

Sutton overall isn't horrible and does a decent enough job preparing but the guy struggles at making adjustments which is why he needs to go. Too many times he's been out coached in the second half of games. I don't blame Peters for blowing up on him earlier in the year. He knows it too.

Everyone of us at home have been screaming at Bob Shithead Sutton all season, but when Marcus Peters did it, he got labeled a "thug".

Fish · 01-07-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

****ing yikes!

FloridaMan88 · 01-07-2018, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

The #1 CB on the 2003 defense = Eric Warfield; #1 CB on the 2017 defense = Marcus Peters. Enough said.

The Sutton Apologists (whose mere presence just confirms that there are dumbshits out there who will apologize for anything/anyone) should take note of that comparison to Greg Robinson’s epic fail defense.

**Donger** · 01-07-2018, 05:13 PM

It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record.

Ugh. Jesus.

Bewbies · 01-07-2018, 05:14 PM

Completely agree with Mellinger.

And the 2003 v 2017 stat holy shit how does Sutton have a job?

Pasta Little Brioni · 01-07-2018, 05:15 PM

The 03 defense didn't fall apart till the 2nd half of the season

Why Not? · 01-07-2018, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

KC needs writers who aren't afraid of being denied access to the team. This team desperately needs a Whitlock to help hold them accountable.

This article is the closest we've seen to a Whitlock call out since he left.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 01-07-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

was that the Greg Robinson defense ? I can't remember.

kcpasco · 01-07-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

The 03 defense didn't fall apart till the 2nd half of the season

This. Those stats are a little misleading because when that 03 defense fell apart it was a lot of yards in much fewer games. This defense has just sucked over the course of 17 games played.

Coach · 01-07-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin

was that the Greg Robinson defense ? I can't remember.

Yes.

Discuss Thrower · 01-07-2018, 05:19 PM

Nico Johnson - played six games for KC before winding up in Cinci in 2014; out of the league in 2016.

Sanders Commings - out of the league in 2014.

Mike Catapano - played 15 games in 2013 before disappearing in 2014 because of GRID; became a Jet in 2015 and didn't play a down in 2017.

Dee Ford - was R-Kal Truluck 2: Electric Boogaloo until he got double digit sacks last season; didn't play more than half the season this year because of injuries

Philip Gaines- if he's not getting toasted in coverage he's drawing penalties

Marcus Peters - boom or bust hot head that makes Deion Sanders blush with pride with the amount of business decisions he makes in open field tackling situations.

Steve Nelson - so far a JAG rotational guy.

Ramik Wilson - JAG rotational guy, so far.

DJ Alexander - special teamer guy in KC and traded to Seattle this year.

Nunez-Roches - missed the playoff game last night with injury, starter.

Chris Jones - most promising young player in this list after Peters, starter.

KeiVarae Russel - cut before the 2016 season and winds up in Cincinnati; JAG guy with the Bengals.

Eric Murray - jury's out, but looks like a rotational / depth guy so far.

DJ White - played 11 games in KC last season; waiver pick by the Colts this year and played in 2 games.

Dadi Nicholas - preseason hype but injured.

K-pas, Eligwe and McQuay are rookies, so not a lot can be said about them.

There's four guys in the above list that have shown at least starter-caliber play. Four.

01-07-2018, 04:03 PM
excessive Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $9766885	Mellinger: Fire Sutton Chiefs need change, and they should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton BY SAM MELLINGER smellinger@kcstar.com UPDATED 40 MINUTES AGO Bob Sutton needs to be fired. The Chiefs should be looking for a new defensive coordinator. There is no joy in calling for a man’s job, but then, there is no joy in watching a defense underperform its talent and fair expectations over and over and over again. This can’t continue. That is plain. That is obvious. Andy Reid isn’t ready to talk about this yet and that’s fine, that’s understandable, that’s his right. What’s more — that’s smart. The head coach lives this in a way that requires space for any major change. Emotional decisions are usually bad decisions, and Reid had to know the Will You Fire Your DC question was coming in the postmortem press conference the day after another embarrassing postseason collapse. And he had to know he would answer it with a vague non-answer. “Time in this league has a funny way of working,” Reid said. “You’ve gotta step back. You’ve gotta evaluate. You’ve gotta go through that process. Look at what’s real, and what’s not. You don’t want to do it when you’re emotional or still tied into what happened obviously last night. “You’ve gotta fight that. A question like that, you’ve gotta fight that. You step back and you evaluate it, and do what’s right for the Chiefs. If you always come back to that, you’re going to be OK.” That’s an 86-word excerpt from a longer answer that can be generally summarized: “I just had my heart ripped out, again, and am not yet ready to make any decision more serious than lunch.” Chiefs' Andy Reid reflects on Wild Card playoff loss: 'We've got to do better' Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid held a press conference a day after the Chiefs’ 22-21 loss to the Tennessee Titans in an AFC Wild Card playoff game. It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record. Allison Long The Kansas City Star Again, you can understand where he’s coming from. Even if he somehow has already decided to move on from Sutton, he hasn’t had a chance to tell his friend and longtime assistant yet, and taking some time comes with no downside. Potential replacements aren’t being hired, and in fact may still be working. More to the point, Reid’s coaching philosophy centers around personal accountability. After every loss, he says some form of, “we need to get better and that starts with me.” After the offense played dead in the second half against the Titans, Reid said he called the plays that didn’t work and assistant Matt Nagy called the plays that did. Firing his defensive coordinator the next day would reek of scapegoating. But if he hasn’t yet, Reid must soon come to the cold and unemotional conclusion that the Chiefs need a new voice for the defense. That needs to be only part of the change. Alex Smith must be replaced by Patrick Mahomes, offensive line coach Andy Heck needs to make a convincing case to keep his job, and no position group on the team underperformed as much as the defensive line coached by Reid’s son Britt. Reid himself should wear the biggest chunk of this loss. He just finished his 19th season as a head coach and by now has earned a reputation for regular season success and postseason failure. Seventy-eight teams have led by 18 or more at halftime of a playoff game. Only four have lost, and two have been coached by Reid in the last five seasons. He is tied for the third-most playoff losses of any coach in NFL history, and the two ahead of him won multiple Super Bowls. Chiefs are on this list twice: Teams blowing an 18-point halftime lead in NFL playoffs According to ESPN research, Andy Reid's Chiefs teams are responsible for two of the only four times in modern NFL playoff history a team has blown an 18-point or larger halftime lead. Neil Nakahodo, David Eulitt, Shane Keyser, John Sleezer, Allison Long The Kansas City Star Since 2001, he has won just one playoff game as the underdog, and lost seven as the favorite. The loss to the Titans followed a familiar pattern: the offense went cold, the defense couldn’t get off the field and the Chiefs had a chance to win at the end and failed. The standard for this team was always postseason success, so the outcome is a failure, and any credible evaluation of another wasted opportunity must acknowledge Reid’s share of this. But he’s not going anywhere, for better or worse. Chairman Clark Hunt values the stability Reid has created after the horror show Pioli years, Reid signed a contract extension last summer, and he’ll oversee the quarterback transition to Patrick Mahomes. Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion. The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt). Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson: 'If you’re good enough, you come out with that win' Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson called Saturday's playoff loss to the Titans one of the toughest of his career. Sam Mcdowell The Kansas City Star The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense. This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate. His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap. Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts. If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed. Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way. Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down. Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter. Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue. Let us say it one more time: Sutton is not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest. Reid is Sutton’s boss, and could’ve better protected his defense and an 18-point lead with more carries for the league’s leading rusher. Even so, the offense could’ve won the game on its last possession, and this is a staggering fact: all but one of the Chiefs’ losses this season could’ve been wins if the offense performed better on its last drive. The Chiefs aren’t giving the next defensive coordinator a fair shot if they don’t improve the personnel, too, which is part of why the team needs to replace Smith with Mahomes. The change would create $17 million in cap space and whatever draft picks they can acquire in a trade, which is enough for a corner, edge rusher, and defensive lineman. There can be no doubt, in any part of the organization, about whether change is needed. We can have lively and smart debates about how far that change needs to go. But there is no question that it needs to include the defensive coordinator, whenever Reid is ready. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...193446229.html
Posts: 383

01-07-2018, 05:04 PM	#47
Coach Champs! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $5988476	2017 Chiefs Defense Totals Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952 Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890 Total Yards Allowed - 5,842 2003 Chiefs Defense Totals Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363 Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344 Total Yards Allowed - 5,707 And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was. __________________ Super Bowl IV, LIV, LVII & LVIII Champions 2020, 2021, 2023, & 2024 AFC Champions 1985 & 2015 Major League Baseball World Series Champions 1980, 1985, 2014, & 2015 Major League Baseball American League Champions 2015 American League Central Division Champs
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01-07-2018, 05:05 PM	#48
jaa1025 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Casino cash: $10000898	The D line should have been the strength of the defense but it took a huge step backwards. Houston was used horribly. All the CB's took a step back. Safeties were terrible. The scheme throughout the year was probably one of the worst I've ever seen.
Posts: 2,922

01-07-2018, 05:13 PM	#53
Donger "Think BOOM!" Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W Casino cash: $10439900 VARSITY	It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record. Ugh. Jesus. __________________ I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 180,544

01-07-2018, 05:14 PM	#54
Bewbies Ith Fuhtbawl Time Join Date: Apr 2010 Casino cash: $9999900	Completely agree with Mellinger. And the 2003 v 2017 stat holy shit how does Sutton have a job?
Posts: 10,085	1 0

01-07-2018, 05:15 PM	#55
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $4068880	The 03 defense didn't fall apart till the 2nd half of the season __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
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01-07-2018, 05:19 PM	#60
Discuss Thrower "You like to drink?" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: "I like to drink." Casino cash: $3316869	Nico Johnson - played six games for KC before winding up in Cinci in 2014; out of the league in 2016. Sanders Commings - out of the league in 2014. Mike Catapano - played 15 games in 2013 before disappearing in 2014 because of GRID; became a Jet in 2015 and didn't play a down in 2017. Dee Ford - was R-Kal Truluck 2: Electric Boogaloo until he got double digit sacks last season; didn't play more than half the season this year because of injuries Philip Gaines- if he's not getting toasted in coverage he's drawing penalties Marcus Peters - boom or bust hot head that makes Deion Sanders blush with pride with the amount of business decisions he makes in open field tackling situations. Steve Nelson - so far a JAG rotational guy. Ramik Wilson - JAG rotational guy, so far. DJ Alexander - special teamer guy in KC and traded to Seattle this year. Nunez-Roches - missed the playoff game last night with injury, starter. Chris Jones - most promising young player in this list after Peters, starter. KeiVarae Russel - cut before the 2016 season and winds up in Cincinnati; JAG guy with the Bengals. Eric Murray - jury's out, but looks like a rotational / depth guy so far. DJ White - played 11 games in KC last season; waiver pick by the Colts this year and played in 2 games. Dadi Nicholas - preseason hype but injured. K-pas, Eligwe and McQuay are rookies, so not a lot can be said about them. There's four guys in the above list that have shown at least starter-caliber play. Four.
Posts: 42,669