Official 2012-2013 NBA Thread

[Al Bundy]

Looks like James Harden has been To the Rockets for Jeremey Lamb, Kevin Martin and future picks. Plus... this is a general NBA thread.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by okcchief

It's not fair to compare LeBron and Jordan until James is done. However, when it's all said and done I'm betting LeBron will be viewed at least as his equal, and possibly better. The only reason he wouldn't be is if he doesn't get the rings.

Disagree. LeBron will go down in history as the most talented and probably statistically productive player in history. Sorry, Kobe fans... I'm by no means a Kobe hater (trust me... I hate LeBron a lot more), but LeBron is probably going to destroy Kobe by career end if he hasn't already.

But he will never touch MJ. There will NEVER be a player with the kind of killer instinct MJ has. Never. The guy hit 50% of his game winners. And I don't think anybody would doubt that of ANY sport, there has never, ever been a player with the kind of elite talent and competitive spirit as Jordan had.

There are no statistics you can use to discuss this. Peyton Manning crushed Joe Montana on almost every dimension, but there was never a greater clutch player than Montana. I really think LeBron and Peyton is a terrific comparison. Peyton is one of the best players of all time, but I don't think there's a single person that would take him over Montana.

[The Poz]

Latest rumour on the Josh Smith sweepstakes is that the Bucks are getting involved. Maybe Jennings? He'll slot in nicely at PF along side Larry Sanders and Ilyasova/Dunleavy.

[okcchief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Disagree. LeBron will go down in history as the most talented and probably statistically productive player in history. Sorry, Kobe fans... I'm by no means a Kobe hater (trust me... I hate LeBron a lot more), but LeBron is probably going to destroy Kobe by career end if he hasn't already.

But he will never touch MJ. There will NEVER be a player with the kind of killer instinct MJ has. Never. The guy hit 50% of his game winners. And I don't think anybody would doubt that of ANY sport, there has never, ever been a player with the kind of elite talent and competitive spirit as Jordan had.

There are no statistics you can use to discuss this. Peyton Manning crushed Joe Montana on almost every dimension, but there was never a greater clutch player than Montana. I really think LeBron and Peyton is a terrific comparison. Peyton is one of the best players of all time, but I don't think there's a single person that would take him over Montana.

The pressure is off him now, and it's showing. It's fair to predict, but the guy has a lot of basketball left. He's playing in God mode right now so I'm not going to be surprised by anything he accomplishes including surpassing Jordan. Even Jordan had questions at one time when Joe Dumars was raping him. Also, I don't anticipate LeBron throwing 2 years away feeding his ego playing baseball.

I loved Jordan growing up, and never thought he would be touched. I think it's exciting to see someone playing at this level even though he's raping my favorite team in the process.

It's funny to me that most people love Michael and Kobe yet hate LeBron. Pretty much LeBron had one summer of bad decisions while MJ and Kobe have been unlikable ego maniacs for years.

I also find it amusing that people value Michael Jordan's opinions of other players when he's had a hand in one of the worst franchises in the history of sports.

Comparing a 28 year old basketball in the prime of his career to a 36 year old football player in the twilight of his career. That seems fair. Lets compare Peyton and LeBron's playoff numbers vs regular season numbers.

I'm sure your opinion isn't biased at all. You are a Cavs fan right? I bet it would be a little different if LBJ was still in Cleveland.

[okcchief]

Originally Posted by The Poz

Latest rumour on the Josh Smith sweepstakes is that the Bucks are getting involved. Maybe Jennings? He'll slot in nicely at PF along side Larry Sanders and Ilyasova/Dunleavy.

I was reading an article on Grantland a month or so ago where they go over player shot charts. Josh Smith basically has the worst shot selection of any player out there. I think he's one of those talented guys that will never reach his potential because he does what he does.

[The Poz]

Originally Posted by okcchief

I was reading an article on Grantland a month or so ago where they go over player shot charts. Josh Smith basically has the worst shot selection of any player out there. I think he's one of those talented guys that will never reach his potential because he does what he does.

Dock him 10K every time he attempts a shot from 12+ feet out.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by okcchief

The pressure is off him now, and it's showing. It's fair to predict, but the guy has a lot of basketball left. He's playing in God mode right now so I'm not going to be surprised by anything he accomplishes including surpassing Jordan. Even Jordan had questions at one time when Joe Dumars was raping him. Also, I don't anticipate LeBron throwing 2 years away feeding his ego playing baseball.

I loved Jordan growing up, and never thought he would be touched. I think it's exciting to see someone playing at this level even though he's raping my favorite team in the process.

It's funny to me that most people love Michael and Kobe yet hate LeBron. Pretty much LeBron had one summer of bad decisions while MJ and Kobe have been unlikable ego maniacs for years.

I also find it amusing that people value Michael Jordan's opinions of other players when he's had a hand in one of the worst franchises in the history of sports.

Comparing a 28 year old basketball in the prime of his career to a 36 year old football player in the twilight of his career. That seems fair. Lets compare Peyton and LeBron's playoff numbers vs regular season numbers.

I'm sure your opinion isn't biased at all. You are a Cavs fan right? I bet it would be a little different if LBJ was still in Cleveland.

I never said I liked Kobe. I hate him less than LeBron. You understand why.
I'm biased on hating LeBron but I've been more than fair on his ability. I've thrown him more than a few bones the past year. I even put him above Kobe.

LeBron has a lot of career left. But I'm sorry, it is going to take a lot to unseat Jordan, and it's going to have to based on more than statistics. Again, why do people take that as some kind of disrespect to LeBron? It is homage to maybe the greatest player of all time... of any sport.

And no, I do not care if Jordan took time off from the game or what he is doing as a front office guy. When he was on the court, there is no player I would rather have on my team than Michael Jordan in his prime. Isn't that what being the greatest is supposed to mean? Or is it about who will get you better stat lines?

[okcchief]

On the Thunder front, Scott Brooks continues to display his outright stubbornness. Again, the lineup with Perkins on the floor minus 24 the other night. Again Collison who is effective against the Heat gets 15 ****ing minutes. Again OKC falls behind big early because they don't have the right lineup in. Again, Scott Brooks deflects these questions by saying we just need to execute better. Again, **** YOU Scott Brooks!

Four years from now if the Thunder have no titles it will be because of Scott Brooks. The media will blame Russell Westbrook, but that's bullshit. He's coachable and if Brooks would get on him about bad shots he would change. People will blame the Harden trade, but it would be the same story with Harden here. Brooks is a perfect coach for a young team building up confidence, but he's the wrong coach for a team taking the next step. The only move question Presti making is retaining Brooks.

Brooks either needs to learn to be flexible with the lineups depending on match ups or the Thunder will be the Buffalo Bills of the NBA.

[okcchief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I never said I liked Kobe. I hate him less than LeBron. You understand why.
I'm biased on hating LeBron but I've been more than fair on his ability. I've thrown him more than a few bones the past year. I even put him above Kobe.

LeBron has a lot of career left. But I'm sorry, it is going to take a lot to unseat Jordan, and it's going to have to based on more than statistics. Again, why do people take that as some kind of disrespect to LeBron? It is homage to maybe the greatest player of all time... of any sport.

And no, I do not care if Jordan took time off from the game or what he is doing as a front office guy. When he was on the court, there is no player I would rather have on my team than Michael Jordan in his prime. Isn't that what being the greatest is supposed to mean? Or is it about who will get you better stat lines?

Right now Jordan is the best player to ever play the game.

10 years from now I'm not sure that will be the case.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by okcchief

The pressure is off him now, and it's showing. It's fair to predict, but the guy has a lot of basketball left. He's playing in God mode right now so I'm not going to be surprised by anything he accomplishes including surpassing Jordan. Even Jordan had questions at one time when Joe Dumars was raping him. Also, I don't anticipate LeBron throwing 2 years away feeding his ego playing baseball.

I loved Jordan growing up, and never thought he would be touched. I think it's exciting to see someone playing at this level even though he's raping my favorite team in the process.

It's funny to me that most people love Michael and Kobe yet hate LeBron. Pretty much LeBron had one summer of bad decisions while MJ and Kobe have been unlikable ego maniacs for years.

I also find it amusing that people value Michael Jordan's opinions of other players when he's had a hand in one of the worst franchises in the history of sports.

Comparing a 28 year old basketball in the prime of his career to a 36 year old football player in the twilight of his career. That seems fair. Lets compare Peyton and LeBron's playoff numbers vs regular season numbers.

I'm sure your opinion isn't biased at all. You are a Cavs fan right? I bet it would be a little different if LBJ was still in Cleveland.

Also to explain the distinction between Kobe/MJ and LeBron....
Sports is competitive. We love competitors. To be competitive, you have to be kind of an asshole. Most of us would rather a guy with an ego driven by a competitive spirit versus an ego driven by wanting attention. I do believe LeBron is maturing. But that right there is the reason why people treat MJ/Kobe different from LeBron in terms of why they hate them. it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by okcchief

Right now Jordan is the best player to ever play the game.

10 years from now I'm not sure that will be the case.

This isn't a battle of statistics or talent. To unseat Jordan, LeBron has to be a better playoff performer than Jordan was. From a playoff perspective, Jordan was pretty much perfect and it's hard to beat perfect. And sorry... but the fair question will always come up about what it says about a guy's legacy that he had to assemble his own superpower by pulling a few strings, leaving behind the team he started with ringless.

And sorry... but LeBron's playoff performances may be better than I often give him credit for, but he is a LONG ways from perfect. I don't care what statistics say. He may in the next 10 years go toe to toe with Jordan from a statistical standpoint, but Jordan's 4th quarter ability is probably going to go unmatched.

Maybe LeBron does it in the next years. But it would have to be one hell of a turnaround to beat perfection.

[Demonpenz]

Steve Kerr and John Paxon if Lebron had warriors like those two.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by okcchief

On the Thunder front, Scott Brooks continues to display his outright stubbornness. Again, the lineup with Perkins on the floor minus 24 the other night. Again Collison who is effective against the Heat gets 15 ****ing minutes. Again OKC falls behind big early because they don't have the right lineup in. Again, Scott Brooks deflects these questions by saying we just need to execute better. Again, **** YOU Scott Brooks!

Four years from now if the Thunder have no titles it will be because of Scott Brooks. The media will blame Russell Westbrook, but that's bullshit. He's coachable and if Brooks would get on him about bad shots he would change. People will blame the Harden trade, but it would be the same story with Harden here. Brooks is a perfect coach for a young team building up confidence, but he's the wrong coach for a team taking the next step. The only move question Presti making is retaining Brooks.

Brooks either needs to learn to be flexible with the lineups depending on match ups or the Thunder will be the Buffalo Bills of the NBA.

Reason will be Lebron James not Scott Brooks if the Thunder dont win a title in 4 years.
Posted via Mobile Device

[tk13]

LeBron is more of a physical specimen than MJ. Although MJ's athleticism is probably being underrated in this conversation because most people remember 1998 Jordan instead of 1988 Jordan that could dunk from the free throw line.

LeBron probably has a chance to equal Jordan in titles, if not surpass him. Even though I think the league has had a resurgence of talent, I just don't see a Celtics, Pistons or Knicks of the 80's/90's that LeBron has to contend with. At least for now. There's probably more "decent" teams now, but better than average isn't going to beat guys like Jordan, LeBron, Kobe etc. People are mocking the Pacers but they probably have the best shot at this point. The Bulls could get there if they get Rose back and get one more elite player. It may be different in 4 years.

But all things being equal, you'd still be hard pressed to take a LeBron team over a Jordan team head to head. This is where banking on statistics can become a bit fatal. There is no statistic for Jordan's rage. LeBron's never going to have that. I just don't think he's capable. It's not a knock on him. LeBron's been treated like a king since high school. Jordan had to work his tail off to even make his HS team. You just can't change that. Jordan was the perfect storm of elements coming together to create a superior athlete who spent his entire life trying to destroy everyone. There is a human element to sports. There probably always will be.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by tk13

LeBron is more of a physical specimen than MJ. Although MJ's athleticism is probably being underrated in this conversation because most people remember 1998 Jordan instead of 1988 Jordan that could dunk from the free throw line.

LeBron probably has a chance to equal Jordan in titles, if not surpass him. Even though I think the league has had a resurgence of talent, I just don't see a Celtics, Pistons or Knicks of the 80's/90's that LeBron has to contend with. At least for now. There's probably more "decent" teams now, but better than average isn't going to beat guys like Jordan, LeBron, Kobe etc. People are mocking the Pacers but they probably have the best shot at this point. The Bulls could get there if they get Rose back and get one more elite player. It may be different in 4 years.

But all things being equal, you'd still be hard pressed to take a LeBron team over a Jordan team head to head. This is where banking on statistics can become a bit fatal. There is no statistic for Jordan's rage. LeBron's never going to have that. I just don't think he's capable. It's not a knock on him. LeBron's been treated like a king since high school. Jordan had to work his tail off to even make his HS team. You just can't change that. Jordan was the perfect storm of elements coming together to create a superior athlete who spent his entire life trying to destroy everyone. There is a human element to sports. There probably always will be.

100% this

[okcchief]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Reason will be Lebron James not Scott Brooks if the Thunder dont win a title in 4 years.
Posted via Mobile Device

Part of the equation. The Thunder could have beat Miami last year with better lineup management. Your telling me LeBron is winning the championship the rest of his career? If he is there will be no discussion about the best player ever.