XBox 360 General Discussion thread

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[007]

Originally Posted by Buck

I wonder if Sony is going to destroy Microsoft at E3 also, and if they do, I wonder if it's going to pretty much guarantee that PS4 is THE console of this generation?

I'm starting to think that Sony NOT showing the actual PS4 may turn out to be a brilliant move on their part. They got MS to put theirs out first. Now that there are a bunch of articles dogging on the Xbox, Sony gets to come out in "save the day mode".

Of course, this is considering the specs and info we get at E3 support that.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by Buck

I wonder if Sony is going to destroy Microsoft at E3 also, and if they do, I wonder if it's going to pretty much guarantee that PS4 is THE console of this generation?

Do we know whether Sony is going to have cloud computing like M$? I feel like that's going to be way bigger than people realize. Having extra processing power and no local hosts is going to be absolutely huge (if you're into the whole playing online thing, that is).

[Mav]

Originally Posted by Guru

God forbid anyone have an opinion that differs from yours. What is so wrong with my thoughts there. If they charge for playing used games you honestly think MS won't miss a beat? They do that and it will hurt their sales immensely. They will still succeed but they will lose customers over it. The core customers.

The fact that you always seem to care so much about my "antiquated" opinion on things cracks me up.

I have to agree with this. I do buy a ton of used games. I have found such gems this way as sacred 2, and kingdoms of amalur. Im not really a core guy, as I was a playstation two guy, but then when I found out they weren't doing anymore kingdom hearts any time soon, I got into halo, and gears of war, so my loyalty switched, but now that we are upgrading, I will go to whoever offers me more of my tastes.

Originally Posted by Pants

Do we know whether Sony is going to have cloud computing like M$? I feel like that's going to be way bigger than people realize. Having extra processing power and no local hosts is going to be absolutely huge (if you're into the whole playing online thing, that is).

The host thing could be huge. I didn't really notice it on MW3 much, but on Black ops 2 it seems like every effing game we are migrating hosts, where I end up being the host because I run the fastest road runner, and direct connect so it helps my team, but not having to stop in the middle of a game all the time because some jerkoff quits, or has a shitty connection would be a huge plus in my opinion. But in all honesty, I was already irritated that I have to pay for live, but I deal with that, but if they want to still charge for live, then charge a fee for used games, that might be enough for me to say that at 34 years old, perhaps my gaming days are coming to an end.

[007]

Originally Posted by Pants

Do we know whether Sony is going to have cloud computing like M$? I feel like that's going to be way bigger than people realize. Having extra processing power and no local hosts is going to be absolutely huge (if you're into the whole playing online thing, that is).

I hate the idea of cloud based gaming, i.e. Onlive. The bandwidth usage is incredibly large.

cloud storage is great though. As long as you don't have to pay extra for it. By extra I mean above the fee for LIVE.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by Guru

I hate the idea of cloud based gaming, i.e. Onlive. The bandwidth usage is incredibly large.

cloud storage is great though. As long as you don't have to pay extra for it. By extra I mean above the fee for LIVE.

Yeah, I can see how the bandwidth usage can be an issue if your ISP has caps.

[Mother****erJones]

Not showing the PS4 was a great move for Sony. I've always been an xbox fan but so far they've ****ed this up. We'll see in a couple weeks.

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Guru

God forbid anyone have an opinion that differs from yours. What is so wrong with my thoughts there. If they charge for playing used games you honestly think MS won't miss a beat? They do that and it will hurt their sales immensely. They will still succeed but they will lose customers over it. The core customers.

The fact that you always seem to care so much about my "antiquated" opinion on things cracks me up.

You are more than welcome to your own opinion.

It is just funny that you try to position yourself as if you care about anything but cost.

Get a gameboy or something.

[007]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

You are more than welcome to your own opinion.

It is just funny that you try to position yourself as if you care about anything but cost.

Get a gameboy or something.

I care greatly about cost. I also care more about value for my money. If there is value then I can justify cost. Why does this bother you so much? You need to get over that.

[Mr. Plow]

Someone link me to something confirming that you will go out and purchase a used game from a retailer, then MS will force you to pay again.

If it's true, that is a dumb move by MS and honestly, companies don't make THAT dumb of moves.

As far as the PS4 being "THE" console - meh. The only thing PS3 has over the 360 now is the free online and bluray if you care about it - unless the specs of the PS4 are that much better than the One, I just don't see it. Both will be competitive, which is good because it makes both systems better.

[007]

Here is a pretty interesting article. WARNING very long. Easier to read on their website.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...-the-xbox-one/

The Five Biggest Problems With The Xbox One
51 comments, 15 called-out Comment Now
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From concerns over used games to questions about an always-online requirement, the Xbox One is growing more controversial by the day.



Sony’s PS4 reveal was met with mixed reactions by most gamers. This was largely due to the system’s mixed-bag debut—some things were good, some bad, but mostly it was all a bit lackluster. But at least we saw some games, some new exclusives, and a wide variety of developers and titles ranging from indies to big AAA stuff like the new Killzone.

Microsoft’s Xbox One reveal was decidedly more controversial, and while I think the new console will have a lot going for it, there is plenty of reason to be concerned.

Many of these concerns stem from mixed messages Microsoft is sending to the press and to gamers about what this new console will entail in regards to everything from the internet to used games.

We’re left to wonder whether this is merely a problem with communication or a much deeper and more worrisome problem with vision. While Sony has made it clear that they’ll target the “core” gamer demographic with the PS4, Microsoft’s target audience is more nebulous.

Now, to the list….

1. Privacy



The Xbox One comes packaged with the next-generation Kinect 2.0.

This time around, the Kinect will be more versatile and accurate than the original, measuring everything from your facial expressions to your heart rate. And Microsoft would like as many games as possible to take advantage of it, whether by utilizing its voice commands or its motion detection system.

But the next Kinect isn’t a “peripheral” gadget. Not by a long shot.

The device is a required component of the Xbox One system and you’ll need to have it on and connected at all times—always watching, and always listening, to its users. What this means for the games we play is an open question, but it certainly raises privacy concerns.

German Federal Data Protection Commissioner, Peter Schaar, has called the always-on Kinect “a twisted nightmare.” Having your emotional data—conveyed through heart rate data, facial recognition, and so forth—recorded and stored on Microsoft’s servers does seem problematic at the very least.

Microsoft (MSFT) vice president Phil Harrison told Eurogamer that this doesn’t equate to “snooping.”

“Microsoft has very, very good policies around privacy,” he said. “We’re a leader in the world of privacy, I think you’ll find. We take it very seriously. We aren’t using Kinect to snoop on anybody at all. We listen for the word ‘Xbox on’ and then switch on the machine, but we don’t transmit personal data in any way, shape or form that could be personally identifiable to you, unless you explicitly opt into that.”

In the age of Facebook and mounting privacy concerns across the tech world, a gadget monitoring your physical, corporeal being at all times is alarming whether or not Microsoft couches it all in anonymity.

2. Region-locking





The Xbox One will use region-locking to lock games down geographically. The reason for this—on any of the many devices and media formats region-locking exists—remains shrouded in the fog of pointless ideas.

“Similar to the movie and music industry, games must meet country-specific regulatory guidelines before they are cleared for sale,” Microsoft told Digital Trends. “We will continue to work with our partners to follow these guidelines with Xbox One.”

This is hardly surprising, though it is disappointing, especially for gamers in regions where games are not available thanks to region blocking. When pressed by Polygon Microsoft declined to give any more details.

Of course, region-locking is not actually necessary at all. The PS3 has just one game that is region locked out of its entire catalog: Persona 4 Arena. If Sony can create a region-free device, surely Microsoft can do the same.

3. Used Games

This is one of the most controversial pieces of the Xbox One puzzle.

I admit to being perhaps a little too sanguine about this at first, or at least about reports that Microsoft and game publishers might take a piece of the used game pie from GameStop.

The real issue with used games isn’t GameStop (whose business model I’m not a fan of) but rather the end-user.

According to statements made by Phil Harrison (both at Kotaku and Eurogamer) the age of used games isn’t quite over, but things will never be the same.

Basically if you want to lend a game to a friend they can either log into your account to play it for free, or pay for the game (probably at full retail price) if they want to play it on their Xbox Live account. This is because games are no longer really being sold, they’re being licensed. The physical disc is just a delivery system, and the “bits on the disc” are not as important as the code downloaded to your hard drive.

What Microsoft is doing here is both sensible and a bit ahead of its time. I say “sensible” in that they’re basically emulating the digital distribution model already in place on PC with a platform like Steam. If I own a Steam game I can play it on any computer, but if a friend wants to play it they’ll need to log into my account to do so.


The future of used games and their retailers remains unclear.

The problem here is that unlike PC, console gamers are used to buying (and then lending or selling or trading in) physical copies of their games. The age of digital distribution and all of its drawbacks and benefits has not arrived for console gamers yet. It will, and Microsoft is sensible enough to anticipate it, but there will be some big bumps along the way.

For one thing, while many different digital distribution platforms exist on PC in competition with one another, this is not the case on consoles. Currently there is no real pricing competition between Sony and Microsoft, meaning that the lower prices we often see on a platform like Steam and its competitors, haven’t arrived on consoles yet. I believe they will, eventually, when one of these console manufacturers realizes that they can make their system enormously attractive by offering cheaper games than the competition, but we’re not there yet.

One way Microsoft could really take the sting out of this would be to make digital copies of games cheaper than retail from day one. Another would be to allow for free transfers of game codes, or for a lending system similar to Amazon’s Kindle lending (whereby one book at a time can be loaned out to another device.)

“The bits that are on the disc, I can give to anybody else, but if we both want to play it at the same time, we both have to own it,” Harrison told Eurogamer. “That’s no different to how discs operate today.”

But it is different.

If I lend you my game today I certainly couldn’t play it at the same time as you, but you could play it to your heart’s content without paying and you could keep playing until you give it back to me (or “lose” it.)

You can do all of this without logging into my account, which is a huge inconvenience for me, since I’d no longer be able to log into it to play my games, or watch Netflix, etc. One purchase for one game that could be played only by one person at a time is what we have already. What Microsoft is describing is something much more costly to consumers.

Microsoft could easily implement a system of game sharing that prevented people from playing at the same time but didn’t require separate purchases or account sharing. They could do all of this while still requiring better policies out of used game retailers and still not prevent peer-to-peer transactions.

If Microsoft wants to change the used game landscape to pave the way toward digital distribution, they can do so without implementing hugely anti-consumer practices at the same time. Indeed, they have an opportunity to do digital distribution right. There’s no reason they can’t make buckets of money while still benefiting the consumer.

4. Mostly always-online


Always online: What could possibly go wrong?

Harrison told Kotaku that while gamers wouldn’t need an online connection 24/7, they would need a connection from time to time to play even offline, single-player games. Harrison indicated that for non-online functions, users would still need to log in once a day.

Microsoft, which appears to be in a state of constant damage control lately, responded to their own vice president’s statements on used games and an online connection by calling them “potential scenarios.”

“While Phil [Harrison] discussed many potential scenarios around games on Xbox One, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail,” the company said.

They added that the specific details surrounding when users would need to log on to the internet remains up in the air. “There have been reports of a specific time period,” the company said, however “those were discussions of potential scenarios….”

Which means we’ll have to guess until more details emerge.

Again, it’s perfectly sensible for Microsoft to embrace the cloud and reap its benefits. Consumers stand to gain all sorts of convenience from cloud-based computing, whether that’s a steady stream of updates and new content or saving games across devices. Microsoft can provide better services and possibly even some server-side muscle to video games.

But there’s absolutely no reason to force consumer participation. Make a service attractive enough and get consumer buy-in, but don’t force an ecosystem that your core consumer base finds repellent.

Most consumers will happily log into the internet and remain logged in all the time and will enjoy the services and benefits the cloud provides. But some consumers may have no internet access (or poor internet access) and others might just prefer to play single-player games without worrying about their internet connection.

All of this is complicated by the fact that Xbox Live is a paid service.

5. Show me the video games!



Finally, but just as importantly, gamers have plenty of reason to be worried about Microsoft’s commitment to games.

For years the console manufacturer has distanced itself from gaming and the “core” gaming audience. The Xbox One presentation did its best to compound these fears: we saw lots of stuff about TV and the entertainment ecosystem the company hopes to provide, but very little about the games themselves (and the ones we did see were cross-platform.)

There’s nothing wrong with trying to win the war for the global living room, but Microsoft shouldn’t forget who its core consumer base is either. People who want to stream Hulu can buy a Roku (or an Xbox 360.) People who want to watch TV already have their DVRs and other devices. The only people really excited about the Xbox One are people who want to play next-gen video games.

Microsoft needs to focus more on the video games that will define their system, and they really need to announce some non-Kinect exclusives for the Xbox One at E3.

Maybe E3 will kill this concern, maybe not. But as it stands, Microsoft seems to be forgetting who their most important customers are.

We don’t know what the final product will look like in terms of how the Xbox One will function, partly because Microsoft’s information has been “inaccurate and incomplete” so far. It certainly makes sense for the company to withhold some stuff for E3, but sending out so many mixed messages is tantamount to aiming both barrels at their feet and firing repeatedly.

In the long-run, I still think that a move to digital distribution will benefit consumers. As a consumer of other types of media (and digital distribution on PC) I believe I have benefited from this, whether it’s streaming music services like Rhapsody or the rise of eBooks.

But in the near-term I think we’re going to feel the growing pains of a changing industry and an evolving technology. While many observers have noted how this will impact consumers, I think companies like Microsoft should think about how it could impact their own bottom line as well. This is inevitably tied to what gamers are actually willing (and able) to pay.

Gamers who purchase used games or lend their games to friends often do so because they cannot afford to purchase new games at $60 a piece. Hampering used games and the capacity to lend or gift your own games without a very real price drop for new games won’t magically lead to more new game sales. Gamers have finite resources.

Digital distribution results in cost-savings for producers who can skip retail, skip shipping costs, and forego manufacturing the actual discs, but those savings need to be passed on (at least to some degree) to consumers to offset the eventual end of used games.

I maintain an optimistic long view of the video game industry, but I’ve no doubt at all we’re in for stormy weather.

PS: As always, I’m rooting for Microsoft here. Just like when I critique or analyze most businesses in the video game industry, my intent is to benefit both the companies themselves and the consumers.

My personal philosophy is that treating customers right is the best business strategy for long-term success. I hope that Microsoft and other players in the video game industry listen to consumer feedback and adjust their strategy accordingly. I think in the long run this will create a win-win situation. Hopefully many of these concerns are put to rest by E3. We shall see.

Follow me on Twitter or Facebook. Read my Forbes blog here.

[007]

I really don't like the online requirement for any console. You shouldn't be required to be online just to play a single player game.

[silver5liter]

Originally Posted by Guru

I really don't like the online requirement for any console. You shouldn't be required to be online just to play a single player game.

They said in an interview after the press conference that its only required to play multiplayer gaming... Which is how it always has been lol

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

As far as the PS4 being "THE" console - meh. The only thing PS3 has over the 360 now is the free online and bluray if you care about it - unless the specs of the PS4 are that much better than the One, I just don't see it. Both will be competitive, which is good because it makes both systems better.

Exactly.

[007]

Originally Posted by silver5liter

They said in an interview after the press conference that its only required to play multiplayer gaming... Which is how it always has been lol

My statement is based on what was written in the Forbes article.

[007]

Originally Posted by silver5liter

They said in an interview after the press conference that its only required to play multiplayer gaming... Which is how it always has been lol

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/0...-one-analysis/

Always Online?
There’s one feature of Xbox One from which we can infer quite a few conclusions: You can install any game from the disc to the console’s hard drive, and then play that game whenever you like without having to put the disc in.

Wired asked Microsoft if installation would be mandatory. “On the new Xbox, all game discs are installed to the HDD to play,” the company responded in an emailed statement. Sounds mandatory to us.

What follows naturally from this is that each disc would have to be tied to a unique Xbox Live account, else you could take a single disc and pass it between everyone you know and copy the game over and over. Since this is clearly not going to happen, each disc must then only install for a single owner.

Microsoft did say that if a disc was used with a second account, that owner would be given the option to pay a fee and install the game from the disc, which would then mean that the new account would also own the game and could play it without the disc.

But what if a second person simply wanted to put the disc in and play the game without installing – and without paying extra? In other words, what happens to our traditional concept of a “used game”? This is a question for which Microsoft did not yet have an answer, and is surely something that game buyers (as well as renters and lenders) will want to know. (Update: Microsoft called Wired after this story was originally published to say that the company did have a plan for used games, and that further details were forthcoming.)

And what of the persistent rumors that Xbox One games will be “always online” – that is, that single-player games would require a constant online connection to function? As it turns out, those rumors were not unfounded, but the reality is not so draconian. Xbox One will give game developers the ability to create games that use Microsoft’s Azure cloud computing service, which means that they might be able to offload certain computing tasks to the cloud rather than process them on the Xbox One hardware itself. This would necessitate the game requiring a connection.

Are developers forced to create games that have these online features, and are thus not playable offline? They are not, Xbox exec Whitten said to Wired — but “I hope they do.” So the always-online future may come in incremental steps.

It is and it isn't based on this article.